In this episode of "Money Code," host Chuk Okpalugo and Raj Parej converse with Cuy Sheffield, the head of Visa's crypto business, delving into how stablecoins are transitioning from speculative assets to real-world financial applications. This includes global dollar availability, debit cards linked to stablecoins, cross-border payment flows, and the next phase of development (on-chain credit and agentic payments). They also analyze the capabilities and infrastructure that banks, fintech companies, and regulators must build in the face of competition.

Takeaways:

• The Profit Paradox of Stablecoin Wallets
  Users directly paying with stablecoins results in losses for wallets—funds flow out with no "merchant interchange," lacking economic incentives.

• Visa's Bridging Logic: Stablecoin Card Integration
  Stablecoin accounts + Visa card network is the fastest way to bring "on-chain funds" into real consumption scenarios.

• Technological Leadership ≠ Ecological Leadership
  Speed and cost are not decisive factors; governance, refund mechanisms, risk control, merchant ecosystem, and standard compatibility are the real barriers.

• The Largest Global Use Case: Dollar Access
  In most emerging markets, the ability to hold a stablecoin dollar account itself is a demand pain point, potentially reaching over 1 billion users in the future.

• The Real Path for Cross-Border Payments
  In the short term, a "fiat ⇄ stablecoin ⇄ fiat" three-stage hybrid model will dominate, with pure on-chain settlement (wallet-to-wallet) exploding after widespread coin holding.

• The Awakening of Banks: From Defense to Catching Up
  U.S. banks are hesitant amid regulatory turbulence, while banks in emerging markets are forced to accelerate due to the rise of new crypto banks; those who embrace it first will control future settlement rights.

• On-Chain Credit is a Reality, Not an Experiment
  The cumulative scale of stablecoin loans issued through smart contracts has exceeded $670 billion, with on-chain lending moving from crypto assets to real-world collateral (RWA).

• Next Phase: Permissioned On-Chain Credit
  Banks and institutions are exploring a "whitelist + KYC + smart contract loans" model, balancing compliance with automated settlement efficiency.

• Agentic Commerce Emerges
  Micropayments between machine agents (Agent-to-Agent micropayment) will become a new currency language in the AI economy.

• Visa's Stablecoin Strategic Blueprint
  Four pillars: stablecoin card products, on-chain settlement networks, cross-border B2B integration, and bank stablecoin infrastructure—the evolution from payment networks to digital currency networks is happening.

If you are a stablecoin wallet service provider today, and users are directly spending stablecoins at merchants, then funds are actually leaving your platform, and you earn nothing in the process. This is a negative yield for you—you do not want users to spend stablecoins directly at merchants. This is Money Code, a program that helps you understand stablecoins and programmable money, preparing you for the on-chain future. I am your host Chuck Okeligbo, author of "Stablecoin Blueprint." I am here with my co-host Raj, who is the head of stablecoins and payments at Monad. Raj, how are you?

Chuck:
This episode is special because we have Cuy Sheffield—Visa's Vice President and head of crypto business, one of the longest-serving and most influential advocates for stablecoins and tokenization in the industry. He is also Raj's former boss. Cuy, thank you for being here.

Cuy:
I’m very happy to be here. I’m a loyal fan of your show; the guests you find are great, and the content is very in-depth. It’s an honor to be here.

Chuck:
Thank you! Before we start, a quick reminder: Money Code is produced by Stablecon Media and supported by BVNK. The views of guests and hosts in the show represent their personal opinions and do not reflect their companies, nor do they constitute investment advice. Raj, you have a deep connection with Cuy; would you like to start?

Raj's Opening Reminiscence

Raj:
First, I have known Cuy for many years. Cuy is a good friend, mentor, and my former boss at Visa. I want to share a story.

Now, everyone takes stablecoins and programmable money for granted, but it wasn’t like that six years ago. The early days of Visa Crypto were some of the most important moments in my career, and Cuy was the key person.

Cuy was the true "patient zero" within Visa, preaching blockchain, cryptocurrency, and stablecoins throughout the company. At that time, I was a product manager at Visa, interested in crypto but not deeply knowledgeable. It was Cuy who brought me in. I still remember his "Stablecoin 101"—introducing USDT, USDC, back when it was five or six years ago. We would gather people from various departments at Visa to listen to these foundational explanations. Witnessing Cuy advance the entire topic at that stage was a very special experience.

Cuy:
Thank you. I have always thought of myself as the "crypto fanatic" at Visa. I joined the company when Visa acquired TrialPay. At that time, I knew nothing about payments and nothing about crypto. During the day, I was learning about Visa—its company history, structure, Dee Hock's culture, and how the payment network operates; I read "One from Many" (Dee Hock's book) and became fascinated with Visa's history.

At night, I was in San Francisco, where my friends were trading altcoins, and I started attending various crypto meetups. Thus, a magical crossover experience emerged: learning payments by day and learning crypto by night. The more I learned, the more I realized that the intersection of payments and crypto is one of the most important directions for the coming decades.

I realized:

• I would never be the most knowledgeable person about payments at Visa.

• I would also not become the strongest technical person in the crypto space.

• But I could be the kind of person who "understands a bit of payments + understands a bit of crypto."

• And that is very rare in the industry.

So I decided:

My career path for the next decade is to stand at the intersection of payments and chains.

At that time, we needed "internal evangelists" to drive things forward. No one formally assigned this task to us; we just started doing it ourselves. This is the reality of innovation in large companies: you have to take it upon yourself to push it forward. One of the things I am most proud of is that we formed the "Visa Crypto Mafia." Many people who worked in Visa Crypto later went on to start their own companies, at least five of which have successfully raised funds, and two have already exited. We cultivated a group of people who understand both payments and chains, which is what the industry needs most. Previous teams working on stablecoins lacked payment experience, which is a huge problem.

The Misalignment of Perceptions Between Payment People and Crypto People

Cuy:
At that time, I was talking to two groups of people simultaneously, one from the payment industry and one from the crypto industry. I asked people in the payment industry, "What do you think of crypto?" They said: "It's strange, it's crazy, we don't understand what they're doing."

I asked people in the crypto circle, "What do you think of payments?" They said: "Everyone will use Bitcoin for payments in the future, no need for cards." At that moment, I realized: these two worlds will inevitably meet. Very few people can understand both worlds simultaneously, and that is the opportunity.

Raj: What are the differences between payment people and crypto people?

Raj:
That's very interesting. For listeners who are not familiar with this intersection, can you talk about:

The "obvious" things in the payment industry that crypto people often completely overlook?

The Real Barriers of Payment Networks

Cuy: Of course. One of the most underestimated points in the payment industry is that "the global merchant acceptance network" is not a technology issue, but an ecosystem issue, built over decades of accumulated network effects. Many crypto projects only focus on TPS, saying:

"Our chain's TPS is faster than Visa's, so we can replace Visa."

But the real challenge is:

• How do you get 150 million merchants worldwide to support you?

• How do PSPs, payment gateways, and acquirers in each country connect?

• Refunds (chargebacks)? Dispute resolution?

• Transaction reconciliation file formats?

• Risk control? Fraud? Regulation? Taxation? KYC? AML?

These are not problems that can be solved by writing a white paper or creating an EVM-compatible chain.

Cuy: The Economic Model of Wallet Payments is Negative Incentive

Furthermore, many crypto projects fundamentally do not understand the core economic mechanisms of the payment industry: interchange (the issuer's share), which leads to a very critical point:

If users pay merchants directly with stablecoins, wallets earn no money and actually lose money.

The reasons are:

• Money flows out of the wallet balance → wallet AUM decreases

• No interchange → 0 revenue

• But the wallet still bears risk control, customer service, and technical costs

This is a fatal problem in the economic model. It is completely normal for wallets to be unwilling to promote "on-chain payments."

Host:
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. There are so many easily overlooked details at the intersection of payments and crypto. Let's dive deeper—what are some "common sense" aspects of the payment industry that many crypto practitioners completely ignore?

Cuy:
From Visa's perspective, there are a few points that the crypto industry rarely understands. First, merchant acceptance and global penetration. This is not a technical issue, but a "network issue." Many in the crypto circle will say:

"I have a new chain, and its TPS is faster than Visa's, so it can replace Visa."

But the payment network is not a TPS competition; it is:

• How do you get 150 million merchants worldwide to support you?

• How do you get PSPs, acquirers, and payment gateways to all connect to the same standard?

• How do you handle disputes, refunds, and fraud?

• How do you provide merchants with reconciliation files, settlement, and batch reconciliation?

• How do you ensure KYC, AML, and risk stratification?

The entire payment system is:

An ecosystem coordination formed over decades, not something that a "faster chain" can replace.

Secondly, there is governance and business model.

Cuy: From the perspective of stablecoin wallet service providers, if your users directly:

Spend stablecoins at merchants—your funds leave the platform—you earn nothing.

It is even a negative incentive. A customer makes a transaction → the money is no longer in your wallet → your AUM decreases; at the same time, you:

• No interchange revenue

• No reward mechanism

• Also bear costs for risk control, fraud, customer service, and KYC

So:

Stablecoin wallets actually do not want users to spend stablecoins directly.

This point is crucial, but many crypto projects are completely unaware of it. Traditional card organizations use the interchange mechanism to ensure that every participant "profits." This is why payment networks have been able to operate for decades.

How Interchange Drives the Entire System

Host:
Perhaps you can explain to the audience what interchange actually is and why it is so important?

Cuy:**
Of course. Interchange is the "incentive engine" of the entire payment ecosystem.

When a user swipes a card:

• The merchant pays (merchant service fee)

• A portion of that fee (interchange) is returned to the issuing bank

• The issuing bank then incentivizes consumers to use the card through rewards points, cash back, etc.

• Wallets and banks also have the motivation to invest in risk control, customer service, and product experience

Visa does not profit from interchange (this is a common misunderstanding); Visa's role is:

To provide network standards and ensure the entire system operates efficiently.

It is this revenue-sharing mechanism that motivates banks, fintech companies, and wallets to:

• Invest in better UX

• Implement stronger risk control

• Offer more rewards to users

• Drive consumption growth

Stablecoin payments lack this mechanism, so they cannot scale.

Why "On-Chain Merchant Payments" Cannot Replace Cards in the Short Term

Cuy:**
When someone says, "Stablecoin payments are cheaper, so they will win," I would counter with:

• How do merchants handle stablecoin refunds?

• How do they verify if consumers are KYC?

• What type of stablecoin? USDC? USDT? Which version?

• Which chain? What if the chain stops? What if gas prices soar?

• How do stablecoins convert to fiat? Who redeems them? What are the fees?

• How is risk managed? What if it gets stolen?

• How do users use wallet signatures at POS terminals?

Each of these questions is enough to make merchants hesitant to accept stablecoins. From the consumer's perspective, changing payment habits is very difficult.

It is completely impractical to expect an American consumer to switch from "Tap to Pay" to "Open wallet → connect signature → worry about fraud." Therefore:

On-chain payments are necessary but not a replacement; Stablecoin-linked cards are the realistic path.

The Explosion of Stablecoin Cards

Host:
You just mentioned an important point: stablecoin cards are becoming a new category. Can you explain why they are growing so quickly?

Cuy:**
Of course. Crypto cards initially were just gimmicks like "spend Bitcoin" or "earn Bitcoin cash back." But now, stablecoin cards have become a truly scalable product.

The logic is perfect:

• Users continue to hold on-chain stablecoins (real on-chain balance)

• Payments are completed through the Visa card network (150 million merchants available immediately)

• Wallets do not lose AUM

• User experience is equivalent to normal card swiping

• Both wallets and issuing banks can earn interchange revenue

• Risk control and refund systems are all based on the card network

This allows:

Stablecoin wallets → to become true global "next-generation card" issuers.

You can compare it to Stripe, Revolut, and Marqeta in 2015—only now it has become the on-chain version. This will create a huge new ecosystem.

People Only Talk About "Stablecoin Merchant Payments," But This Is a Misunderstanding

Host:
Yes, the crypto community often says, "Merchant acceptance of stablecoins will explode." But this is not actually the biggest use case, right?

Cuy:**
Absolutely correct. Merchant payments receive too much attention, but they are not the most important use case. The most important one is actually: global dollar availability (Dollar Access).

The Primary Use Case of Stablecoins is "Global Dollar Storage"

Cuy:**
In the U.S., people do not feel the need for dollar availability. But in most countries around the world, being able to hold dollars safely, cheaply, and quickly is a very difficult task. Stablecoins solve this problem.

In the past few years, we have seen:

• USDT has approximately 500 million holders

• Many markets view stablecoins as a safe-haven asset

• Even ordinary consumers consider "buying USDT" as a form of saving

We believe that the number of global stablecoin users will exceed 1 billion within 2-3 years. This is a real demand, not hype.

The Reality of Cross-Border Payments?

Host:
Besides "dollar access," cross-border payments are another hot area. What are your thoughts?

Cuy:**
Cross-border payments are a multi-layered structure. In the short term, we will see:

Model 1: Fiat → Stablecoin (on-chain movement) → Fiat

That is:

• The payer uses fiat

• Uses stablecoins as a cross-border channel

• The payee then converts back to fiat

Many companies are already doing this and improving it.

Model 2: Direct settlement between stablecoin wallets (wallet-to-wallet)

This is the larger market of the future, but it depends on:

• Whether global users all hold stablecoin wallets

• Whether wallets are interoperable

• Whether businesses and enterprises are willing to accept on-chain accounting

This will take a few years. But the trend is clear:

Cross-border payments will increasingly resemble on-chain transfers.

Host (Raj):
You just mentioned that global stablecoin adoption is rapidly increasing. I want to ask from the banks' perspective: Visa interacts with many global banks; how do they view this trend? Do they realize that "stablecoins are about to become a trillion-dollar asset class"?

Cuy:**
That's a good question. The responses from different banks vary significantly, mainly depending on:

• The country they are in

• The regulatory environment they are in

• Whether their customers really need stablecoins

U.S. Banks: Experiencing "Regulatory Whiplash"

On the U.S. banking side, what I see is:

• 2021: They set up teams to study stablecoins

• 2022–2023: Regulations suddenly tightened, and they could not touch any on-chain assets

• Many people were reassigned to other tasks

• 2024: The U.S. Congress suddenly passes stablecoin-related legislation

• Banks are forced to quickly "catch up"

• But their customers actually have little demand for stablecoins (because they already have dollar accounts)

This creates a kind of:

"Have to catch up, but don't know where to go" passive posture.

Emerging Market Banks: The Most Urgent

Cuy:**
In markets like Brazil, Argentina, the Philippines, and Nigeria, the situation is completely different. Because:

• Local consumers are turning to stablecoins as a means of dollar storage

• Local fintech (like digital wallets and new crypto banks) are growing rapidly

• Local banks find themselves losing young users

These banks feel that:

Stablecoins are not a new toy; they are competitors.

But they are in a difficult position:

• Regulatory uncertainty

• They cannot issue stablecoins

• They cannot allow customers to hold coins on-chain

• Meanwhile, overseas wallets (self-custody) can do so

This creates intense pressure from unfair competition.

Banks Need to Push for Regulation, Not Wait for It

Banks are gradually realizing:

"If we do not push for regulations that allow banks to issue stablecoins and custody stablecoins, the local market will be taken over by foreign fintech."

How Will Stablecoins Ultimately Enter National Financial Infrastructures?

Host:
It sounds like banks are being forced to accelerate. How do you think the financial system will absorb stablecoins in the coming years? Will local banks issue stablecoins? Or will self-custody wallets dominate the market?

Cuy: I believe there will ultimately be two types of stablecoins:

Track 1: "Dollar Stablecoin Accounts" Provided by Global Fintech/Self-Custody Wallets

For example:

• OKX Wallet

• Binance Wallet

• Global independent wallets

• Dollar balances issued by third-party fintech (like USDC)

These products are cross-border and do not require local banks. They meet:

• Dollar storage

• Peer-to-peer transfers

• Cross-border payments

• Merchant payments (through card networks)

• Currency exchange needs

Track 2: Local Stablecoins Issued by Local Banks

For example:

• Brazilian Real Stablecoin (BRL)

• Singapore Dollar Stablecoin (SGD)

• Korean Won Stablecoin (KRW)
  And so on.

This will bring several benefits:

1. The local currency can form a more transparent FX market with USD stablecoins on-chain

2. Banks can continue to dominate deposits and loans

3. It will not allow "dollarization" to erode too quickly

This is crucial for regulators.

Cuy: The More Open the Regulation, the More Local Banks Can Compete

If regulators allow banks to:

• Hold stablecoins

• Issue stablecoins

• Conduct on-chain settlements

• Provide on-chain accounts

Then:

Banks can retain users and will not be taken away by fintech.

If regulators continue to block this, then:

Users will go directly to use global fintech and self-custody wallets, which is even more dangerous.

Host:
So now it seems like a three-way competition:

• Local banks

• Global fintech

• Crypto wallets/on-chain wallets

Whoever adapts to on-chain infrastructure the fastest will win?

Cuy:**
Absolutely correct. Every year, the competitive advantage of fintech that lays the groundwork early will grow larger. The later banks enter, the harder it will be to catch up.

The Future of On-Chain Lending and DeFi

Host:
We have discussed the applications of stablecoins in payments and cross-border transactions. But there is another area that is exploding, which you mentioned: — On-chain Credit & Lending. Visa recently published a research paper stating that the cumulative scale of on-chain loans denominated in stablecoins has reached $670 billion. Can you explain why this is so important?

Cuy:** DeFi (on-chain lending) has actually been "validated in practice," and this figure is one we spent a lot of time calculating. The question we researched was:**

"So far, how many loans globally have been issued through smart contracts using stablecoins?"

We had to analyze:

• Multiple chains (Ethereum, Solana, BSC, etc.)

• Multiple protocols (Aave, Compound, Morpheus, Maker, Morpho, etc.)

• Various stablecoins (USDC, USDT, DAI, etc.)

• Different contract structures (collateral, liquidation modules, interest rate models)

In the end, we calculated that approximately $670 billion in loans have been issued on-chain through stablecoins. This is an astonishing figure.

Although these loans:

• Mostly involve collateralized crypto assets

• Are primarily used for trading and leverage

• Are not "real-world asset" loans

It proves an extremely important point:

The technical model of on-chain credit has been fully validated. Automated liquidation, collateral management, interest rate curves, and lending markets have been operating for years.

What is the Possible Future of On-chain Credit?

Host:
It sounds like on-chain lending is no longer an experiment but a mature system. From Visa's perspective, will this technology enter traditional finance in the future?

On-chain Credit Will Be More Important Than "On-chain Payments"

Cuy:** Yes, I even believe that:

The impact of stablecoins on the global credit system will be greater than on the payment system.

The reason is simple: payments are a "low-margin, highly regulated" business; but credit is the core business for banks to make profits. If on-chain lending can:

• Manage collateral at a lower cost

• Automate lending and liquidation

• Match funds globally

• Allow assets (gold, stocks, invoices) to be tokenized and collateralized

• Shorten settlement cycles and improve transparency

Then it will reshape the core structure of finance. In other words, global credit will transition from "national islands" to a "cross-border on-chain collateral system."

Host:
If we really want to achieve "trillions of dollars in on-chain credit" in the future, what do you think is currently the most lacking?

Cuy:**
The current state of DeFi lending is:

• Anyone

• Completely anonymous

• Collateral assets are often cryptocurrencies

• Protocols are fully permissionless

But real-world lending must:

• Know who the borrower is (KYC/AML)

• Comply with risk assessment

• Allow asset freezing

• Allow emergency pauses (circuit breakers)

• Allow court intervention

This means that in the future, there will be:

A structure that overlays a "permissioned layer" on top of DeFi protocols.

Similar to:

• Whitelisted liquidity pools

• KYC user lending pools

• On-chain collateral markets that banks can participate in

• Mechanisms that allow freezing, rolling back, and arbitration

This is technically entirely feasible.

Host: Could on-chain credit + stablecoin cards lead to a boom in credit cards in developing countries?

If in the future someone uses on-chain loans to obtain stablecoins, and Visa cards can be used for direct consumption, does this mean that credit cards may experience a second boom in emerging countries?

Cuy:** It is entirely possible. Because:

• Many countries lack mature credit scoring systems

• Banks are hesitant to extend credit to users

• But on-chain collateral can automate lending

• Loans are issued in stablecoins

• Visa cards handle the consumer experience

This model is very powerful. In the future, we may see a combination product of "on-chain collateralized loans + stablecoin balances + Visa card consumption." This presents a huge opportunity in emerging markets.

Host (Raj):
Before we move on to the next topic, I want to ask one last question: aside from mainstream use cases like cross-border payments and dollar access, many people will ask:

"What are the longer-term, more future-oriented use cases for stablecoins?"

Recently, we saw that Visa's published article also mentioned on-chain lending, as well as the capital markets applications you previously mentioned.

But there is another rapidly rising direction: Agentic Commerce (AI Agent-based Commerce/Agent-to-Agent Payments).

Today, we are already seeing prototypes of "AI agent payment protocols" like X42 starting to emerge. Can you talk about how Visa views the AI agent economy and machine payments? Will it become the next wave of demand for stablecoins?

Agentic Commerce is One of the Most "Out-of-the-Box" Yet Promising Directions

Cuy:** This is a very interesting direction, and I also believe it is one of the most "intellectually interesting" fields at the moment. Frankly, not many people truly understand it right now.
That in itself is what makes it interesting. We roughly see two possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Human → AI Agent → Merchant (AI Shopping/AI Agency)

Cuy:** In the future, you might have an AI Agent complete tasks for you, such as:

• Booking flights

• Buying birthday gifts for children

• Reserving hotels

• Selecting the cheapest flights

• Automatically comparing prices

In these "AI shopping" scenarios:

Visa's card network fits perfectly because it is a cross-merchant, cross-scenario, instantly available payment tool.

If an AI Agent is to help you "purchase products across the internet," the simplest way is to use a Visa Tokenized Card.

This allows the AI to:

• Initiate payments

• Deduct funds

• Manage refunds

• Seamlessly interact with all merchants

• Fully inherit existing payment dispute and risk control systems

Visa is already building a dedicated Agentic Commerce team to handle this direction.

Scenario 2: AI Agent ↔ AI Agent (Pure Machine Economy/Machine-to-Machine Payments)

Cuy:** This scenario is currently more "forward-looking," but has huge potential. Imagine a future where:

• Your AI agent needs to call a "weather API," but it doesn't have the corresponding service

• It goes to the market to inquire with another AI (an Agent that specializes in weather functions)

• It pays that Agent $0.0001

• The other Agent completes the task and returns the data

• The entire process requires no human involvement

• This process requires: micropayments

This is precisely what stablecoins excel at:

• Small payments

• Instant settlement

• Automated, programmable

• No need to establish cumbersome billing systems

• Supports paying "different machine service providers" one by one

X42 is an Interesting "Early Testing Ground"

Cuy:** I check the X42 block explorer every day to see what is happening. The current main use cases are:

• Minting Meme Tokens

• Trading Meme Tokens

This is actually very normal—historically, every round of chains and every new technology has attracted developers' attention starting from "speculative use cases." Solana, Fantom, and Polygon are all examples of this. But afterward:

Developers, capital, and tools will continuously come in, leading to the emergence of real use cases.

I believe that:

• Machine payments

• Micropayments

• Machine service markets

• Agent-to-Agent economy

Will take shape in the coming years.

What Visa wants to do is:

Enter the ecosystem early, understand the real interaction patterns, and ensure we can provide value in the future.

Host: The development of AI × payments will resemble the "birth logic of Uber."

I really like what you said. It is indeed very similar to the birth of Uber:

• Mobile phones

• GPS

• App Store

• Payments

• Gig economy

• Real-time geographic services

These technologies existed independently, but when they "matured simultaneously," Uber became "achievable" in that moment.

AI agent payments will also require:

• Micropayments

• Stablecoins

• A chain that supports machine calls

• An agent platform

• A data service market

When all these elements mature, an explosion will occur.

Cuy:**
I completely agree. We still do not know:

• What the first AI agent killer use case will be

• What the first profitable Agent service will be

• Where the first truly high-frequency machine payment scenario will emerge

But one thing I am very certain of:

Stablecoins will be the preferred tool for payments between AI Agents.

Because they possess:

• Global interoperability

• Low-value payment capability

• Programmability

• 24/7 borderless access

• Machine callable interfaces

This is precisely what the machine payment economy needs.

Host: Back to stablecoins themselves—Visa's outlook for the next five years?

A few quick questions. If we look five years ahead, what do you think:

"The successful appearance of stablecoins within the Visa system will look like?"

Cuy:** The "four major success indicators" for stablecoins at Visa in the next five years.

1) Stablecoin Cards Become a Mainstream Category in the Visa Network

In the future, a number of large FinTech companies will be built entirely on:

• Stablecoin balances

• Visa consumption

• On-chain transfers

This is a huge opportunity.

2) Visa's On-chain Settlement (Stablecoin Settlement) Reaches Billions of Dollars

We have publicly stated:

• Visa's current on-chain stablecoin settlement run rate is $2.5 billion:

"If we can do $1 billion, we can do $10 billion; if we can do $10 billion, we can do more."

In the future, Visa's backend settlement system will see more and more transactions using stablecoins.

3) Cross-border Payments (Visa Direct + Stablecoins) Become a Major Business

Visa's cross-border valuation is already enormous. If stablecoins are integrated with Visa's payout rails:

• B2B

• B2C

• Remittance

• Marketplace payouts

All could be significantly upgraded.

4) Providing "Stablecoin Infrastructure" for Banks and Institutions

In the next five years, Visa aims to become:

The technical and compliance entry point for banks into the stablecoin world.

Visa will help banks:

• Choose chains

• Integrate stablecoin custody

• Conduct on-chain settlements

• Connect KYC wallets

• Launch stablecoin products

This is a huge B2B opportunity.

Host: So what about ten years from now? Payments on Mars? Should we deploy stablecoins on Mars?

Cuy:** Haha. Dee Hock once said:

"Visa's ultimate goal is not credit cards, but the exchange of all value on Earth."

I think he was too limiting. Why restrict it to Earth? In the future, if we establish colonies on Mars, why can't we use stablecoins there? What currency will they use then?

• US Dollars?

• Stablecoins?

• Bitcoin?

• Or the "Martian Dollar"?

This is a very interesting future topic.

Host:
What book or content would you recommend to the audience?

Cuy:**
Definitely Dee Hock's "One from Many."
But that book is not very easy to read. If you want to understand quickly, you can listen to his seven-episode podcast series on The Innovation Show. He was 90 years old at the time, but he spoke brilliantly.

Host:
Last question: Who should we invite from the industry to be on the show?

Cuy:**
There are so many people it's hard to choose. But I think we should interview more:

People within banks who are responsible for digital assets/stablecoins/tokenization projects.

They understand the real challenges best, but usually find it difficult to speak publicly due to PR restrictions. I can privately recommend a few to you later.

Show Wrap-up

Host (Chuck):
Today's conversation was fantastic. Thanks to Cuy for the deep insights. Listeners can find Cuy on:

• X/Twitter: @CuySheffield

• Visa Crypto Official Website: Visa.com/crypto

Thank you all for listening to Money Code!

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