Source: When Shift Happens

Organizer: Felix, PANews

Bobby Ong is the co-founder and CEO of the cryptocurrency data platform CoinGecko, which he built from the ground up with $200 over the course of 12 years, without any venture capital.

In the podcast, Bobby shared his experiences and entrepreneurial journey, believing that the only area where CoinMarketCap is better than CoinGecko is in SEO, and responded to rumors of "selling for a valuation of $500 million." Here are the highlights of the conversation.

Self-taught programming, entered the crypto space in 2013

Host: TM Lee has been CEO of CoinGecko for so many years; why did he decide to switch roles with you?

Bobby Ong: Because the crypto market and the company have reached a turning point. In the early days, it was like the "Wild West," but now major banks and institutions have entered, and the industry is changing for the better. Additionally, CoinGecko has grown over 10 years to nearly 100 employees, and the management direction needs to leverage different strengths. TM (the former CEO) is inherently a technical genius; he now serves as president and focuses more on R&D from 0 to 1. I have taken over as CEO, responsible for the overall vision, operations, and direction, each playing to our strengths.

Host: What attracted you to the crypto space in 2013?

Bobby Ong: I have an economics background, studying economics at University College London, one of the best places in the world to learn about currency. I spent three years studying currency right after the major financial crisis had passed. I attended university from 2009 to 2012, learning about bank runs, interest rate setting, federal deposit insurance, etc. However, after graduation, seeing the emergence of "negative interest rates" in reality shattered my understanding of textbook economics. So I quickly tossed the textbooks into the trash.

After graduation, I self-taught programming and spent a lot of time on technical forums. I learned about Bitcoin on Hacker News; after reading the white paper, I tried to buy some Bitcoin, and a few days later it was credited to my account, which I withdrew into my self-custody wallet.

What really struck me at the time was: this is money I can control myself. Money in a bank account isn’t really yours; if the bank goes bankrupt, your money is gone too. I was more intrigued by Bitcoin's currency supply: only 21 million coins, with a fixed supply. At that time, it was the era of quantitative easing, as the government printed money causing the dollar to devalue; who knows if the rules will change in the future?

So the narrative of owning hard currency, digital gold, is very solid: the rules are written in stone, difficult to change (unless everyone agrees). Additionally, in war-torn countries, many assets are real estate that you cannot take across borders, but Bitcoin can be pocketed and taken away. For many, this is something that can change their fate. Most of these qualities still hold true today and are even more significant. Therefore, I believe the foundations of cryptocurrency have not changed over the years.

Still optimistic about NFTs; the future big winners of assets have yet to appear

Host: What is Pudgy Penguins?

Bobby Ong: One day, I received an email asking me to invest in Pudgy Penguins. I am a loyal fan of NFTs. I had a call with Luca Netz and invested. What I didn’t know at the time was that Luca had been rejected by many VCs. I just wanted to support an entrepreneur colleague. He would be the winner in this field. I didn’t know he faced so many challenges at the time. It was clear to me, but I think not everyone shares the same vision.

Host: What is your view on NFTs in 2026?

Bobby Ong: I remain optimistic about NFTs. In this world of billions of tokens, a large part will be non-fungible tokens (NFTs). Although NFTs seem to be at a low point now, they will return at some point. The vast majority of assets in the real world (such as real estate, contracts) are essentially non-fungible, making NFT technology a necessary choice for putting these assets on-chain.

Host: Who will be the winners in the future value of assets?

Bobby Ong: I think it will be something that has yet to appear. Look at the tech industry: in 2000, you would not have imagined Uber or Airbnb. The Ubers and Airbnbs of crypto have not yet arrived. Now, companies grow to 1 billion users or reach a billion-dollar valuation much faster than before. Old assets will not die; Bitcoin will always be there. But will Pudgy Penguins still be around in five years? What about CryptoPunk? Who knows.

CryptoPunk was the first NFT series and may have historical artistic value. Pudgy Penguins will ultimately depend on team execution. However, crypto always has new things, so we need to stay agile.

The DeFi boom in 2021 was a turning point for the company

Host: Why is it called CoinGecko? What was the early entrepreneurial state like?

Bobby Ong: In April 2014, I co-founded CoinGecko with TM Lee. At that time, crypto companies typically had very serious names like Coinbase or CoinDesk, but they wanted to add a fun factor by naming it after an animal. They chose "Gecko" because geckos are highly adaptable, quick, and have a wide distribution. They considered "CoinTeddy," but obviously no one liked the implication of a “bear market.”

For the first five years of the startup, to avoid risk and fulfill scholarship contracts, I worked full-time in digital marketing until the crypto market exploded at the end of 2017, when I went full-time into CoinGecko. At that time, CoinGecko was extremely simplistic; it was just a simple domain and basic server that scraped prices and social media data for a few hundred tokens, with almost no visual design.

Host: What was the turning point for development?

Bobby Ong: The turning point was the DeFi boom in 2021. We did many things that year, the most important being tracking the DeFi market. At that time, mainstream platforms didn’t pay attention to long-tail assets on DEX, while CoinGecko comprehensively integrated on-chain data and tracked all DeFi tokens, gaining a large user base. CoinGecko was the only platform able to track these coins at that time, and we were 6-12 months ahead, solidifying our position as “the preferred destination for crypto data.”

No financing, forcing low-cost creative marketing

Host: Why not take VC money?

Bobby Ong: In the early days, we talked to venture capitalists, but no one really understood what cryptocurrency was, especially VCs here in Malaysia. We also went to the US, where I talked to some people at Stanford and some in Silicon Valley, but they looked down on it, thinking that making money through advertising would definitely not work. Well, if the people in Silicon Valley can’t see it themselves, there’s nothing we can do about it. Of course, there are some VCs in Silicon Valley that focus on this field.

We have always maintained a lean operation, and self-funding is quite interesting; it’s like conducting an experiment to see how far we can go without financing. I feel that lacking financial resources is actually a constraint on creativity. This is a limitation we set for ourselves. The advantage is that we never have to write any investor reports or face any pressure from VCs.

If you need to grow quickly or validate ideas, then go for financing. But I suggest the amount of financing should be substantial enough to reach a certain level and propel the company to the next stage. However, raising too much money too early is not a good thing, because in the end, you will have too much capital but lack discipline. You might find countless ways to squander funds, ultimately leading to overhiring or making all sorts of ridiculous decisions.

CoinMarketCap excels in SEO and regularly evaluates investment options

Host: How should users choose between CoinMarketCap and CoinGecko?

Bobby Ong: It’s important to understand the rules of the game for both companies and how they affect users. We do what we think is beneficial for the community and strive to provide users with the right data. Many users discover CoinMarketCap first through SEO, but over time they find that CoinGecko has more accurate data and a wider range of listed coins, and we have also started building the Gecko terminal, which includes more tokens, including all kinds of tokens on various DEX on-chain; many developers using our API have also realized that we offer better reliability, accuracy, and uptime.

There are also subtleties, such as metadata, how we manage listings, how we check updates, etc. Ordinary users may not notice these, but industry insiders can quickly see the differences between CoinGecko and CoinMarketCap and the work we do.

Host: Where is CoinMarketCap stronger than CoinGecko?

Bobby Ong: They are definitely stronger than us in SEO. They started 11 months before us and received a lot of media coverage, which typically generates many backlinks that help boost SEO ranking. Then, when journalists search for this token next time to write an article, they find CoinMarketCap and start writing. So they established a positive feedback loop. We have been striving to surpass them in SEO, but it is not an easy task. This is one of their advantages, and they hold a very strong position in the existing market.

Host: Recently, there have been rumors that CoinGecko might be sold for $500 million. What are your thoughts on this?

Bobby Ong: CoinGecko is a profitable, independent company that has grown through self-funding. We frequently evaluate our strategic options, such as whether to raise funds in the early stages. The discussions we have now may differ slightly because the industry is constantly changing. We are looking for opportunities, seeing what is available in the market, examining options, and determining how to best position CoinGecko to improve it, make it stronger, and provide the best products and services for our users and clients in the coming years. We do not comment on specific cases, but I mean that we regularly assess various options.

Host: When is the best time to sell?

Bobby Ong: There is never a so-called best time to sell. Timing depends to some extent on luck. Ultimately, it relies on the co-founders, founders, or founding team, and what is right. Moreover, in the end, companies are acquired rather than sold.

Related reading: CoinGecko seeks sale: The end of the independent era of crypto data

免责声明：本文章仅代表作者个人观点，不代表本平台的立场和观点。本文章仅供信息分享，不构成对任何人的任何投资建议。用户与作者之间的任何争议，与本平台无关。如网页中刊载的文章或图片涉及侵权，请提供相关的权利证明和身份证明发送邮件到support@aicoin.com，本平台相关工作人员将会进行核查。