Original video from | Bonnie Blockchain

Organized by | Dingdang (@XiaMiPP）

Recently, after taking on the role of Co-CEO at Binance, He Yi accepted an exclusive interview with Bonnie Blockchain, sharing extensive thoughts drawn from personal experiences on various topics including family education and character formation, curiosity and the sense of gain and loss, career choices, mutual achievements with CZ, women's issues, and the organizational structure of Binance.

Odaily Planet Daily has selected and organized the most representative viewpoints and excerpts from this interview for readers' reference and reading.

1. Family Education and Character Foundation: From a Mountain Village to the Starting Point of Self-Identity

Host: Every time I see your interviews or dialogues, I feel deeply touched. I really enjoy stories of rising from the bottom. I studied your story, and you mentioned growing up in a village. I want to understand what life was like back then.

He Yi: My home is located in a remote mountainous area of Sichuan, about an hour's walk from the county town. Although I had electric lights when I was young, they were unstable, so sometimes there would be power outages, especially when the wind broke the power lines, and we had to use kerosene lamps. Since there was no automatic tap water or well for drawing water at home, we had to carry water in buckets.

Before I turned 9, my parents were teachers, so our family environment was relatively good, and we were well-respected in the village. Later, my father suddenly passed away, and life changed dramatically. Looking back on this today, I believe that all good and bad experiences become part of your character foundation; everything is the best arrangement.

Host: Do you think that the teachings and examples from your family are key reasons for your current success?

He Yi: My parents were teachers, and my father was a very curious person. We had a large bookshelf at home with a wide variety of books, from "Compendium of Materia Medica" to "Romance of the Three Kingdoms," pig farming techniques to grape cultivation, including oracle bone inscriptions. The most interesting thing in your environment is reading; you will enjoy reading. You feel an intellectual difference between yourself and other children, and as you grow up, you realize it's a difference in cognition. Unable to play with other children, you choose to read books at home.

Host: I saw a report that everyone starts school at 6 years old, but you started at 4.

He Yi: I was the middle child, and my sister went to school every day. I felt like a left-behind child, peering over the wall, looking at the calendar, saying I wanted to go to school, until the adults had no choice but to send me. My parents sent me to a friend's school that was closest to our home. At that time, their idea was to let me try first, and if it didn't work, I could repeat the grade. Because there were no kindergartens or preschool classes in my hometown at that time, children started school directly in the first grade, so I went to first grade before I turned 5.

Host: In terms of physical or mental development, a one-year age difference can be significant, but it seems you managed well.

He Yi: I was the top student when I started school, so the following year my parents wanted me to repeat the grade, but my homeroom teacher disagreed. At that time, I didn't feel there was any difference. Looking back today, I think it's because I wanted to go to school, unlike those children who didn't want to go; if you force them, there will be a difference.

If you are passionate about something, want to do it well, you won't think of it as something particularly special; it may surpass physical and intellectual limits.

2. Worldview, Curiosity, Experimentation, and Sense of Gain and Loss

Host: What did you want to be when you were a child? Did you think about what success would look like when you grew up?

He Yi: I didn't have that concept when I was young because I was too young. There is a book called "Desire to Imitate." I believe all human desires come from imitation; for example, my sister went to school, so I wanted to go to school. In fact, you haven't seen the world, so where does your worldview come from?

The life ideals you can gain from books are nothing more than becoming a teacher, doctor, or police officer. Since the closest to me was a teacher, I thought I might become a teacher when I was young. When you are very small and haven't seen the world, you can't see the vastness of it. For example, in middle school, my deskmate won first place in a speech contest, and at that time, I didn't even know what a speech was.

After my father passed away, I attended a normal school. Because our family was poor, my mother hoped I would graduate and become a stable teacher, so she wouldn't have to worry about me becoming a farmer. When I entered the normal school, I won first place in my first speech contest. At that time, I thought, so this is what a speech is; it doesn't seem difficult. I'll give it a try.

Host: It sounds like you are very good at encouraging yourself; you don't say "I can't," but rather "it's just that way. I can do it too." And without a sense of gain and loss, you just try interesting things purely out of curiosity.

When I was young, I watched a movie about American beauty pageants, and I thought it looked so glamorous and interesting that I wanted to try it. I am also a very curious person, so I can understand. However, after participating in competitions, there can be a sense of gain and loss, like needing to place or something else. Do you put that kind of pressure on yourself?

He Yi: No, I think even if I lose, if I gain something in the process, learning from experiences and lessons in failure, winning is great, but losing is also okay.

Host: Is this sense of gain and loss something that comes from training? When you were young, all children want to win, but later realize life is not like that.

He Yi: No, because I think if your starting point is low enough, you will feel that losing is normal, and winning is a gain.

3. Early Work Experience and Sense of Responsibility

Host: Let's go back to when you were 16. What’s the story of being a beverage distributor?

He Yi: At that time, I was in college, and at 16, I could work part-time on weekends. I remember it was a weekend promotion for the Unified Group, and I was the most hardworking promoter. They suggested I hire a few more people, and then I could become a manager.

Host: What did you learn from that experience? I think it’s very difficult to have the audacity to sell.

He Yi: No, you just stand there all day, and they will pay you, but I think since I earned this money, I have to do my best. I cherish this opportunity.

Host: Let's go back to your story of entering the TV station. I think this is a very interesting part. Everyone has a dream of entering a TV station when they are young. When you see someone performing on TV, you think they are very successful.

He Yi: This is an even more outrageous story. There was a girl named Wang Danqing, and I met her through a previous business collaboration. But because there was a problem on her side, it didn't succeed. One day she called me and said she was now at Travel Channel, doing a program with Yang Lan from Sunshine Media, and they were holding auditions. She said I was particularly suitable and asked me to participate, which I remember very clearly.

At that time, I was on the subway receiving the call, and the signal was intermittent. I watched the Beijing subway rush past me, and I didn't get on because I was on the phone. I said, "Now the young girls are like seedlings, and I'm already 25. I'm not a professional, and I can't even speak Mandarin fluently. You want me to go audition to be a host." She said, "We don't want a broadcasting tone; we want it to be natural. I think you are very suitable; come and give it a try."

In the first and second rounds of auditions, I felt my performance was poor. At that time, she was the director and said she would do her best to support me. But later she left the job.

However, I didn't have high expectations because it had already been unreliable once, so a second time being unreliable was within reason. I wouldn't think I lost anything, but I didn't expect they would still notify me to participate in the finals.

On the day of the finals, I was in the office of Sunshine Media. Everyone drew lots for topics, and you might get two minutes to speak. After speaking, there was a Q&A session, but I can't remember what I spoke about at that time. However, I remember the Q&A session very clearly. At that time, I had no expectations; I thought I would definitely be knocked out.

They asked me what advantages I had in being a host. I said I had a background in psychology and was quite empathetic, so I could communicate with anyone. Secondly, I had learned makeup, which could save on makeup artist fees. Thirdly, I didn't care about the salary; I thought the job was very interesting. It was a travel program where you could travel around, and someone would sponsor you to go out and have fun while paying you. I thought it was perfect; I didn't care how much they paid me.

Later, I went back. I thought I would definitely fail because the other candidates were beauty pageant winners, model champions, or already somewhat famous artists, so I definitely had no chance.

But later, the new producer called me and said, "In the end, we think you are more suitable, and we still want to sign a contract with you."

Looking back today, my experience working at Travel Channel is a very beautiful memory for me. Many people say the entertainment industry or television industry is very complicated, but I am very grateful for everyone I met during that time.

Because my Mandarin was not very good, sometimes they would add subtitles to point out my mispronunciations, but there were many happy memories. At that time, I didn't know how to play Mahjong, and they taught me how to play. My Mahjong skills were learned with the director and producer. Last year, Binance filmed a documentary, which was produced by my director friend from that time.

4. From TV Station to Joining OK: A Choice in the Wave of Entrepreneurship

Host: So how did you get into the crypto space? That seems like a big leap.

He Yi: Because we recorded a program for a year, covering most of China. With my on-screen experience, other TV stations or programs would look for me. At that time, two opportunities came my way by chance.

One opportunity was introduced by a friend, a producer sister who was originally the CFO of a company. After making money, she became financially free and had a dream in film and television. So she created a novel about struggle and wanted to film her own story, founding a film and television company. However, she required the actors to sign with her company for 10 years.

After interviewing many people, she chose me, but she put forward a condition: I had to remove a mole from my chin, as it might be too distinctive and not match her imagination of herself, and I had to sign for 10 years with a monthly salary. At that time, there were no other film and television companies offering me contracts, so I had no way to compare, but it felt a bit off, and I hesitated.

In 2013, Bitcoin's price just broke $1000, and I met a VC investor named Mai Gang. He sent me a message saying, "I invested in a company doing Bitcoin trading; can you help me with advertising?" He didn't mention paying me.

I asked, "What is Bitcoin? Let me research it." I started reading the white paper online, and after finishing, I thought this thing was amazing. No one had ever told me what money was before; everyone tells you that money is important from a young age. No one tells you what money is; this was the first time I encountered a way to explain what money is.

I felt like a new world had opened a big door. So I helped him write a short article and made a free advertisement, along with pictures, and posted it on my social media. This matter just passed like that.

After that, he invited everyone who helped them create the free advertisement to sing together, and that’s where I met Star and talked to him about Bitcoin.

Star asked me if I would consider joining OK, as they were looking for someone in marketing at that time.

It happened to be a time when angel investment and entrepreneurship in China were very FOMO-driven, and I really wanted to understand the specifics of working in a startup.

Host: Was it you who persuaded CZ to join OK? After CZ left, you also joined his project. What was the conversation like at that time, and how did he convince you?

He Yi: When CZ joined, I felt that OK already had a significant market share. He should have had some minor disagreements with his previous company.

I told him, you have a trading background, and now you are working on a wallet, which doesn’t allow you to fully utilize your talents.

OK is an exchange; you have been trading for so many years. Since you are good at trading, why not continue trading? Isn’t it natural for you to work on a trading system?

I believe this was the key to persuading him.

5. Persuaded by CZ: From Advisor to Partner

Host: Being your own boss comes with significant risks, which is something most people would hesitate to take on.

He Yi: Him persuading me was another matter.

Before this, I was working at Yixia Technology and was quite unhappy. Just then, CZ contacted me and said he wanted to do an ICO. They had written a white paper and asked if I could help as an advisor.

I said I wouldn’t sign my name on a document I hadn’t seen. If you want me to be an advisor, then I will truly be an advisor; first, show me the white paper.

At that time, I happened to be in Shanghai for the Weibo Influencer Festival, so I took the weekend to revise the white paper. I felt that at least one-third of the first version of the white paper was written by me, but I didn’t know it would involve money at that time; I was a bit naive and just wanted to get the job done. Later, I went back.

Actually, he had tentatively asked me if I would consider joining, but I probably didn’t pay much attention. I remember saying, “I’m too expensive; you can’t afford me.”

Host: But usually, saying that is a polite way to decline.

He Yi: Yes, because they were still a small company at that time, hadn’t started yet, and had no money. Later, they completed the ICO and raised about $10 million. He called me and said, “I have money now; I can hire you.”

Then, on July 14, they were going live. The night before the launch, he called me to discuss the agreement. By that time, we had been negotiating for a while, and I felt I could go, but the terms hadn’t been settled.

He said, “Tomorrow BNB is going live, if BNB rises tenfold after the launch, I won’t be able to give you the same offer. You either agree today, or we can only renegotiate later.”

At that time, I thought, although this company is about to IPO, which is visible money, I still had full confidence in my abilities. First, I have experience in running an exchange; secondly, I have built a top brand in China in a short time; so I wanted to see what a world-class challenge would be like.

Before joining Binance, I had a very clear goal: to become a top global exchange, even though it hadn’t launched yet. Although CZ had a Western background, the other partners in the company had mostly only worked in Chinese companies and couldn’t speak English, and the team lacked diversity, I still chose to become a partner.

Host: I think you are very good at recognizing talent. In a small company, you went from 0 to 1, and then from 1 to 1000; I think you did very well.

One thing I admire about you is that you speak very gently but are very firm in your actions. You resist when you need to. Although you set a bottom line and tell others what is right, you always do it in a very gentle yet firm way.

He Yi: No, when I was younger, I was like a machine gun, attacking indiscriminately. Now, in fact, they all think I’m a very difficult person.

Host: Is that how you achieve excellence?

He Yi: Yes, you need to have standards and requirements. If everything is just okay, then how can you achieve excellence?

Host: I can demand excellence from myself, but when I have so many employees, how do I ensure the company has that culture?

He Yi: I think it fundamentally comes down to recruitment. First, the people you hire should be similar to you because people in the world are not simply black and white. For example, someone might not be useful in your company but could be very good in another. I believe what’s important is whether the people you hire fit your culture.

6. Women’s Issues, Identity Choices, and Social Narratives

Host: I noticed that Binance has many female employees. We were just discussing this before the camera started rolling.

Today’s society tells women that they should marry into a good family, ideally becoming a princess and being taken care of by others. There are also many short videos that portray this as a beautiful life, but you don’t agree.

He Yi: Perhaps because I was not born a princess. But I have gone through this mental journey. My parents had a very good relationship since childhood, so I have a beautiful longing for that.

Moreover, I was quite naive as a child, reading a lot of romance novels and having a strong literary sentiment, which led to unrealistic fantasies about love. But my biggest realization now is that I won’t let my daughter read these toxic materials in the future.

Host: Don’t you think that’s a romantic thing?

He Yi: What is romance? I think it’s a combination of disassemblable elements. In this process, whether it’s movies, novels, or literary segments, they will tell you it’s romantic. However, beauty is beauty; you can enjoy beauty, but beauty doesn’t necessarily equate to romance.

Host: I believe you attend many important occasions, like dinners, but many women who attend may just be the companions of successful men. And usually, many people think that if a woman appears at a successful dinner table, she must be someone’s partner.

He Yi: Just as you mentioned about the internet, I think it’s very good; it’s very diverse. Diversity means there is a variety of content. I believe that in an age of information explosion, the ability to discern information needs to be very strong. Although there may be 10,000 Hamlets in this world, you need to know which one is your Hamlet. Everyone reading the same content will have different feelings.

I believe as a woman, you can choose to be a good mother or a housewife; that is a choice, but it’s also not an easy role to fulfill.

But my own choice is to be myself. You could say it’s an active choice or a passive one. Because I wasn’t born a princess, I need to level up myself. In this process, I find myself growing stronger, and at that point, I might be the superhero riding on a rainbow.

Only when you are strong enough can you truly understand what kind of life you want.

Some female friends return to family life after experiencing a lot of success. They feel they have proven themselves in the business world or purely competitive environments but still prefer to be mothers and wives. They have tried it and know what kind of life they like or dislike; that is their choice.

Host: From your perspective, what would be the perfect match?

He Yi: I don’t think it’s a question of choice.

I really enjoy being a mother. On the internet, we might see many topics about childbirth anxiety, like how your belly changes after having a baby, how painful childbirth is, and that all the damage is irreversible.

But I think being a mother is great; being a mother makes you strong. This is my own transformation process. Yesterday, someone asked me how to cope with stress, and I said, “Just embrace the baby.” I feel it’s not that the child needs me; it’s that I am a mother who needs to be stronger and more robust to protect my child. This might also be a kind of instinct written in your DNA.

Host: Recently, I had a very good friend who just had a baby. She used to be a very strong person.

She suddenly became very anxious because she suddenly became someone’s mother, and this transformation from herself to being someone’s mother made her feel like she had “disappeared.”

He Yi: Maybe she’s not busy enough.

After I had my baby, I didn’t take maternity leave; I went straight back to work. When others asked me if I had postpartum depression, I said I didn’t have time to be depressed. If you are busy enough, you won’t feel depressed at all.

Several of my friends who had babies didn’t experience postpartum depression. Even the wife of a senior manager at a company said she wanted to find something to do immediately after having a baby because if you don’t let me do something, that’s when I feel depressed.

7. The Boundaries of Public Figures: Time, Energy, and Public Opinion Management

Host: I want to ask you one more question. You are now at the top of the world, commanding influence, and what you have the least of is time. Wherever you go, everyone wants to take a photo with you; this is a process that successful and famous people must go through. You should protect your energy and time, but I see you still willing to reply to netizens on Twitter.

He Yi: Occasionally, I do pay attention to some things. I believe that in work, if the other party raises a question, we may have made a mistake. If they point out areas where the company and product should improve, and it’s reasonable, we will address it.

Before 2019, I had no negative public opinion online. At that time, I was quite young and impulsive, often arguing with others in groups. Later, everyone discovered a way to become famous overnight, which was to argue with me. After that, I learned to avoid arguing as much as possible. Every time I see someone attacking me, I think, don’t argue, don’t give them traffic.

Host: Not responding is the best response, right?

He Yi: I believe if it’s a serious matter, I will respond. For unreasonable provocations or deliberately trying to gain traffic, I try not to reply. Because that helps others gain traffic; they are using you. Think of it this way: just let them criticize you.

You can’t make everyone like you; in the end, those who believe in you will always believe in you, those who like you will always like you, and what those who hate you say is useless.

Host: I think accepting being criticized is something that requires practice.

At first, when some criticisms appear online, you might feel very bad. Some are very rude, attacking your gender, background, nationality, etc. Does it affect your mood, or do you just ignore it?

He Yi: To be honest, it’s hard not to look. If you don’t look, you will lose an effective channel of information to understand what stage the company is at and what problems the product has.

You can understand it as me focusing more on the issues on social media now, rather than purely on whether others like me, dislike me, criticize me, or don’t criticize me.

Rationally view this world; you are a small universe, and this world is a larger universe. In these two different universes, you need to accept your imperfections and also accept the world’s imperfections.

There is night and there is day; you need to accept the good and bad that appear in life, as they ultimately shape you into who you are now.

When I was young, I once said that you should enjoy whatever fate gives you. Now I might feel it more deeply.

8. Intimate Relationships, Cognition, and “Admiring the Strong”

Host: Most of the friends in the crypto space are male, and when they date, they hope their partner is a successful woman. However, successful women are usually harder to deal with because they are not the kind of gentle and demure women of the past. So many people raise a question: if they are so difficult, how do you deal with that?

He Yi: Only excellent men can be with excellent women. I believe there can be mismatches between people, but these mismatches can reverse over time. Teacher Xiaolai once said that the money people earn is money within their understanding, and your interpersonal relationships are also relationships within your understanding. Your ultimate understanding of the world determines what kind of life you lead, and this life is not just about whether you have money or what luxury car you drive, but rather about the richness and peace of your mindset.

I think if a man has no value in his understanding of himself and women, then why would a woman need him? If a man is very successful and excellent, then what do you provide for him? I believe people shouldn’t always think about what they can take from others; instead, they should first consider what they can give to others.

Host: I just saw your comment while driving here. You mentioned that after your speech yesterday, CZ corrected you line by line. You talked about this in a joking manner. I think many people would be upset, saying, "I already did well, why do you need to correct me?"

He Yi: Because my English is indeed not good; you have to admit that. This is a matter of fact; he told me that this part could be done better, which didn’t undermine my confidence.

Host: His way of saying it must be very artistic.

9. Binance's Organizational Ideal: A Garden, Not a Pyramid

Host: Back to Binance, what do you hope Binance will become in the future?

He Yi: I hope it can grow into a rainforest. I have been emphasizing recently that most companies are triangular, with the boss at the top giving orders and subordinates simply obeying. But I am now working hard to turn Binance into a garden, and I believe we are beginning to see the shape of it, where everyone can voice their opinions.

Therefore, many people who just joined Binance, even if they are high-level, feel very confused, as it seems like everyone is a boss, and there are always different people giving them orders. Because, like a garden, everyone is continuously growing, iterating, and evolving. If you are not strong enough, you will be overshadowed by others' branches and leaves.

If you are proactive and strong, you will grow larger in the garden, even becoming a towering tree. I hope everyone can become a towering tree, ultimately growing into a rainforest.

In our organizational structure, to be honest, I feel that whether I serve as CEO is not important. Because Binance has many true partners who can support the company, and I am just a supporting figure at the bottom of the inverted triangle.

Host: When observing Binance's structure, you and CZ originally represented the face of Binance, but now it has changed to CO-CEO. What is the logic behind this change?

He Yi: I think it doesn’t matter whether I am CEO. They all say congratulations on finally becoming CEO, and I think it’s deserved. I believe it relates to how much responsibility you take on and how much blame you bear.

Many people want to be promoted in their careers; I believe as long as you do it first, that will naturally come. Of course, there are exceptions. But I think I need to do it first, so whether I am CEO is actually irrelevant.

Host: But there must be a decision that everyone thinks you should be in the CO-CEO position.

He Yi: It may mainly be to give everyone a bit of confidence during this bear market. Over the past two years, all our attention has been on bridging the gaps. Whether it’s communicating with regulators to obtain licenses or meeting compliance standards, we have been catching up for two years. At least it releases some confidence into the entire environment, letting everyone know that we, the OGs of the crypto space, are still here, and we are still user-first.

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