Original | Odaily Planet Daily (@OdailyChina)
Yesterday (December 23), as the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, Shaw participated in a fan meeting event in Shanghai and accepted an interview with Odaily Planet Daily, sharing updates on ai16z, degenai, and the deep collaboration project ELIZA, as well as the impact of the AI sector on Web3 in 2025.
The following is the interview transcript
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been quite popular in the Web3 space recently, which must have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight as an anonymous developer in the second half of this year?
Shaw: I didn't intentionally want to step into the spotlight, and I never expected this to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and no one knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt a disconnect with the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and authentically present myself online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I had no idea these things would happen. In fact, I didn't even realize that the developer field had a so-called "spotlight."
There is indeed pressure from the outside. I used to enjoy promoting some other projects simply because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, as the DAO started to grow very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure, and I could no longer casually talk about the projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most watched projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw: I think there are three main reasons. First, it’s ready to use out of the box. There are currently many AI agents and tools related to large language models (LLMs), and while they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. Our Eliza framework can be run directly as soon as you start it; it includes everything you might need. At the same time, it also provides many plugins, such as Solana plugins and EVM plugins, which are already integrated.
Second, the core of AI agents is network-oriented. I noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I believe the more important aspect of agents is connecting all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it using TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, allowing many developers to get started easily.
Third, focus on social loops. We have focused on building connectors to social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, so developers can immediately run our tools and get their bots online on X without coding. Then they can add their own features on top of that, such as integrating EVM chains, allowing them to add a wallet to their agents with almost no code changes. Or, if you have your own software and APIs, you can also call them through the agent. Starting with social media is key, and social media agents can self-promote, making more people aware of their existence and spreading rapidly. I think that’s the reason for its success: agents can easily go live on X, and then everyone who sees it will want one, and they can quickly acquire and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance alpha section but also launched OKX contract trading. Are there plans for further deep cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw: Of course, we have other team members specifically responsible for these matters, and I think we might see more tokens listed and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't promise a specific timeline. I believe that listings on Binance and Coinbase are an inevitable trend, but I am more focused on AI agent-related content, so I cannot make any guarantees and do not provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: How does ai16z differ from previous DAO organizations in the Web3 space?
Shaw: I think the core issue with previous DAO organizations is that while the decentralized nature of DAOs has been achieved, the autonomy part has not been done well. It is not true "autonomy" and still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This has led to many problems, such as a small number of people holding all the power. Usually, some "whales" control all the voting rights; it is very difficult for newcomers to enter and contribute to the DAO.
This shortsighted behavior clearly exposes many coordination issues within DAOs. We believe this is where our technology can solve the problem, allowing more people to truly participate and contribute, and providing rewards for their contributions. We are researching a mechanism for "continuous retrospective funding allocation." The idea is that if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in Discord working groups, or help in any meaningful way, those contributors will be rewarded. This is different from traditional airdrops; it is more like a way to continuously reward contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working hard to develop the relevant features for this.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z DAO will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw: Yes, our business model is based on the value accumulation of tokens. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly in projects that we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects within ecosystems that use AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup without VC support, but we do have a relatively large fund pool, which was donated by a whale. We are using this fund to invest in projects that we consider important and to gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform and are currently collaborating with the teams we invest in, which is somewhat like the concept of Baidu Fund. We are also engaging in deeper cooperation with Baidu Fund and some other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z's official Twitter mentioned integrating its ecological token economic model. Is it through staking, burning, and other methods to increase token value?
Shaw: I think burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least based on my experience, burning tokens sometimes gives the impression of "dumping," and this approach does not seem to genuinely help the long-term value of the tokens. In fact, if I burn tokens myself, it might upset some people because they feel it undermines their incentives. However, I believe staking is very important. I think any mechanism that can lock tokens will be very popular. What we are really focused on right now is that our tokens face huge liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market cap of $1 billion but only $4 million in liquidity, which is clearly not enough.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you mentioned on the X platform that its AI agent will be launched soon. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be and what its core competitiveness is?
Shaw: Yes, degenai is about to debut; it is the first character we are launching, and it will come with a built-in wallet. Degenai can obtain trading signals through social media, and we will track certain KOLs to see if they are genuinely sharing quality recommendations. If we follow these KOLs' advice, can we profit? Or are they actually "dumping"? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system that makes trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us but also be replicable by users to bring into their own communities. For example, users can trade through this agent without manually performing complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another character that uses the same technology but has slightly different functions. Although some information has already been disclosed, we are in the testing phase and have only opened a very small Alpha chat group, where invite-only users can share trading information.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project that is deeply cooperating with ai16z, you could have issued it yourself but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will do a better job with ELIZA? In what ways will they provide support for the project in the future?
Shaw: The AVA team showed me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool at the time, and I was willing to work together to ensure the project truly meets high-quality standards. Additionally, they have some excellent developers on their team. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functionality but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in terms of user experience and features. They hope to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project, but as a comprehensive platform encompassing various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization, and assisting the project in implementing core functions;
Resource integration: We will leverage our ecosystem and resources to collaborate with them more deeply, including sharing market channels and industry networks;
Community promotion: We plan to utilize our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly transition to the new platform or accept new features;
Financial support: If needed, we will assess whether to support the project's long-term development through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential and believe that this project meets market demand and user expectations. They have the ability to drive the development of Eliza in a more free and creative way, and the support we provide is to ensure that the project starts off solidly, aligns with our overall mission, and respects its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 space, everyone is optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the performance of the AI sector in Web3 will surpass that of the GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer of that year?
Shaw: I think it’s possible. Ultimately, it depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Moreover, I firmly believe that AI will fundamentally change the way the internet operates, and AI agents are just getting started. For example, on the X platform, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, and this change really feels crazy.
Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, do you have any beginner advice for users who are just getting into the Web3 AI space?
Shaw: Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they haven’t done any reading or understanding. They just blindly follow trends and start complaining when they lose money. In behaviors like PVP, trends change very quickly, and a matter of minutes can determine whether you make 1x, 10x, or lose all your money. This rapidly changing environment leads to a phenomenon of blind following. However, those who truly do extensive research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding answers, your chances of making the right investment will be much greater.
Additionally, I believe that making money is not just about buying a project; you can also engage in liquidity mining. Buy top tokens that perform well and put them into liquidity pools. While you may not achieve 10x returns due to missing early opportunities, you will gain long-term stable returns, which is the key.
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