Author: Wu Says Blockchain

During the Binance Blockchain Week 2025 held in Dubai on December 3-4, Binance founder CZ participated in a group interview. The Q&A covered topics such as crypto payments, digital asset treasury, U.S. policies, Giggle Academy, life aspirations, and more. CZ believes that payments remain a core scenario that has not been fully addressed, and that successful Web3 founders in the future need to be product and user-centric with a long-term mindset. The DAT model itself is feasible, but the risks depend on the management team. The reopening of U.S. regulations will bring tremendous opportunities to the industry. The mainstream adoption of crypto technology relies on regulatory clarity, infrastructure, and enterprise-level integration. Crypto has significantly improved financial accessibility in developing countries, and education, public welfare, and ecological promotion are his personal focuses for the future.

This content reflects the personal views of the guest and does not represent Wu Says' views. The audio transcription was completed by GPT and may contain errors. Please listen to the complete podcast on Xiaoyuzhou, YT, etc.

Why has the crypto industry still not truly solved the "payment" problem?

CZ: I believe that payments are still the most obvious core scenario that has not been truly solved. The Bitcoin white paper defines it as an "electronic cash payment system." Over the years, countless teams have attempted to create crypto payments, but we still haven't fully accomplished this.

There are various projects in the market like Binance Pay and BitPay, but the "chicken or egg" problem still exists. First, there is the issue of price volatility—Bitcoin and most crypto assets are too volatile. Although stablecoins exist now, the ideal situation is for users to be able to pay directly with cryptocurrencies. However, in reality, due to various factors, crypto payments have not been able to gain popularity offline.

One feasible direction is to integrate crypto payments into traditional payment systems, such as the Binance Card. The reason these cards are popular is simple: when users swipe their cards to pay, merchants only see fiat currency credited, while users are using cryptocurrencies in the background, making the entire crypto-to-fiat exchange experience very smooth. Unfortunately, during the tightening of regulations under the Biden administration, most of our Binance Card projects were forced to halt. However, the situation is improving now, and I hope that such solutions can become popular again in the coming years.

In summary, although there are many different technical paths, "payments" remain one of the biggest challenges that the crypto industry has yet to overcome.

What was Binance's original vision, and how has it evolved over time?

CZ: Predicting the future is really difficult. When we founded Binance, my goal was to become one of the top ten exchanges in the world within three years, but we became number one in just five months.

Initially, we considered setting up offline offices, but quickly realized that it wasn't a good idea, so we tried to make Binance a "decentralized company"—without a headquarters or fixed office location. However, we later found that this would confuse regulators, as they need to know where a company is registered. So we had to adjust our thinking.

Throughout the process, various external forces pushed us forward and forced us to change direction. Looking back now, centralized exchanges must be fully regulated entities with a clear headquarters and office location; at the same time, on-chain solutions are becoming increasingly popular. I believe that in the future, centralized and decentralized forms will coexist for a long time.

If I could go back in time and do this again, I might see things more clearly.

What kind of founders will stand out in the next cycle?

CZ: This is a big question, but I think the most critical point is "product-oriented"—those founders who truly focus their energy on creating products that users will actually use and who genuinely understand their users will be the ones who can stay. Mission-driven and integrity-driven founders will also continue to exist.

The crypto industry is inherently very volatile. We may be in a bull market now, but there will definitely be bear markets followed by another bull market, and so on. Regulations in different countries will also continue to change, sometimes positively and sometimes negatively, in a cyclical manner. Founders who can navigate these cycles and persist will ultimately win.

In summary, those who can truly succeed are the founders who create real products, focus on users, and are prepared to deeply engage in this industry for the long term.

If you could make one wish, what would it be?

CZ: I would be content with just one wish (laughs). But honestly, I don't have many wishes. Life is interesting precisely because it is full of unknowns. When you don't know what will happen next, you strive, you fight, and you learn to face uncertainty.

It's like playing a game; if you were told at the start that you would definitely win, it wouldn't be fun. What makes a game meaningful are the parts that require you to struggle, to respond carefully, to collaborate, and to get things done. The challenges of life are part of the fun.

The only thing I truly hope for is that everyone can be healthy. Health is the most important thing, and even if you maintain good habits, it's not entirely within your control. Health is really crucial.

Aside from that, I think the world is already interesting enough. I also believe that because life is not infinite, we cherish it more. If you could live forever, time would become unimportant, and life wouldn't be as precious.

When you might lose something, you truly understand its value. So I don't have many special wishes; I already feel very lucky. The only thing I would ask for is: don't let me fall into a long period of bad luck. Other than that, I am quite satisfied with my current life.

Is the Digital Asset Treasury (DAT) model sustainable?

CZ: First of all, I believe the DAT (Digital Asset Treasury) model is fundamentally sound. It allows traditional companies—especially those that cannot directly purchase large amounts of crypto assets due to institutional constraints—to access and allocate crypto assets. Many companies and CFOs are allowed to use corporate treasuries to buy stocks, but there is no mechanism to buy tokens, so the DAT model fills this need.

However, there are many types of specific implementations of DAT. Because MicroStrategy has been so successful, everyone wants to replicate its model. But just because an internet company is successful doesn't mean all companies have the same management capabilities. Different DAT management teams also have different fee structures; I personally prefer lower fees; the simpler the DAT structure, the better.

MicroStrategy's model is very straightforward: just buy Bitcoin. And if the BNB treasury makes good use of tools like Launchpad, Launchpool, and airdrops, it can achieve quite considerable returns (annualized returns of 10-50% are possible), which is very high compared to traditional stock markets.

However, some DATs want to be "more complex" or "more valuable," for example, by investing 10% of the corporate treasury in different crypto assets. That actually becomes a completely different business model, requiring professional asset management capabilities, and different combinations will bring completely different risk structures, with the level of risk entirely depending on the management team's capabilities.

The entire industry has a lot of variability. DATs are by no means risk-free; they carry significant risks and are more dependent on the management team, governance structure, and investment philosophy. But fundamentally, it is entirely reasonable for a publicly traded company to buy leading crypto assets, hold them long-term, and benefit from appreciation. Just executing this simply can create a lot of value.

In my view, holding Bitcoin long-term is one of the best-performing strategies. Its returns over the past 10-15 years have outperformed 99% of startups and surpassed almost all other investment strategies. So even if a publicly traded company simply executes a "buy and hold" strategy, it can generate significant value in the long run. The model itself is feasible—the key lies in execution and management.

Of course, when a narrative becomes very popular, it can easily overheat. Everyone rushes to establish DATs, resulting in market overcrowding; some will fail, and some will be eliminated. After the first wave of enthusiasm subsides, only truly robust and well-managed DATs will continue to grow.

After Trump's pardon, will the U.S. become a key market for Binance?

CZ: First of all, I have no private business dealings with the Trump family. But I am very grateful for this presidential pardon because it allows me and our team to conduct business more freely around the world—including in the U.S. Frankly, I sincerely hope to help the U.S. become a global crypto capital center.

For us, the U.S. is now considered an "emerging market." In the past few years, under the regulatory pressure of the previous administration, we tried to withdraw from the U.S. as much as possible: not engaging with U.S. users, not investing in the U.S., and withdrawing whenever possible. Although Binance US still exists, its business scale is very small. On the day it was sued by the SEC in 2023, it had about 35% market share, and now it is almost close to zero.

At that time, bank ports were also closed, and state licenses were restricted. But now, as far as I know, the U.S. market has fully reopened. The U.S. itself is an extremely important market, leading the world in technology, AI, and other fields—but in the blockchain space, the largest companies are currently not in the U.S. I hope to promote more crypto businesses to return to the U.S.

Many U.S. investors, especially institutional investors, currently lack exposure and investment channels to the BNB ecosystem, and we hope to change that. Everything is moving towards openness. I also fully intend to support the development of the U.S. crypto industry—including investments, supporting entrepreneurial teams, and helping more projects join the BNB Chain ecosystem.

How do you maintain mental health amid public pressure and negative media?

CZ: For me, it's actually not that difficult. I know that Binance—both the platform and the ecosystem—has genuinely helped hundreds of millions of people around the world, especially those in remote areas who previously had almost no financial services available.

Although there are many negative reports and various accusations online, especially in mainstream media, I also receive many letters of thanks. When I went to court, I received about 230 letters of support in total. Reading those letters almost made me cry—because we have indeed changed many people's lives, and this is just a tiny fraction of those we have helped. So public opinion is always two-sided.

I categorize the "black" online into two types:

The first type is mainstream media, which often promotes an anti-crypto narrative: for example, "cryptocurrencies are dangerous" or "Bitcoin is used for illegal transactions," etc. These narratives mostly come from traditional institutions that feel fear towards new technologies. In the U.S.—although I don't participate in politics—some Democrats like Elizabeth Warren have been attacking the crypto industry. I don't know why, because most Americans actually support crypto. This group is the first type.

The second type consists of people who have lost money trading. Everything is great when they are making money; when they lose money, they want to blame others. I can understand their frustration, but investing inherently requires taking on risks. No exchange can guarantee that you will always make money. Whether it's stocks, startups, or other investments, there are risks; not investing is also a risk—potentially never being able to accumulate wealth. Life is about various trade-offs.

Once you understand these basic logics, your mindset becomes much easier. I have been through a lot, including being imprisoned. But I know that no users were harmed, there was no fraud, and no misconduct. I have taken full responsibility for my actions. Therefore, I can sleep soundly because I know I have genuinely helped many people.

Over time, you will learn to automatically filter out meaningless noise. However, I take "constructive negative feedback" seriously—such as when someone points out where the product can be improved, which partners can be collaborated with, or which features are not good enough. These can help us improve, and I will pay attention to them. As for those who only complain without any substantial content… I consider that background noise.

What needs to happen for crypto to truly achieve mainstream adoption?

CZ: I believe this is a gradual process. "Mainstream adoption" essentially means allowing traditional financial users to naturally use crypto technology. The first step must be regulatory clarity. Many countries around the world still lack clear regulatory frameworks. I am personally collaborating with over a dozen countries, and our team assists governments, including those of Kenya, Pakistan, Thailand, etc., in reviewing regulations and even holding workshops to explain how exchanges operate, how crypto works, and the mechanisms of the entire industry.

I also serve as an advisor for several countries. However, currently, there are still very few countries with clear and forward-looking regulations. The U.S. is starting to take the lead, which is a good sign, but it is still early. Trump had only been in office for a year when the "Genius Act" was passed, and the "Clarity Act" is still in progress. The first version of regulations is often imperfect and requires time for continuous iteration.

Once regulations are established, banks also need to start collaborating with crypto businesses. Crypto is not magic; it is just a new technology. To achieve large-scale adoption, it must integrate with the existing financial system.

There are many practical issues that need to be resolved in the meantime:

· How should companies hold crypto assets?

· How to handle cross-border taxation?

· How should crypto assets be presented in financial reports?

How should auditing firms conduct audits? These all need to be standardized, which is not particularly difficult, but it requires time and coordination.

Currently, there is also a severe lack of crypto-native financial products. The entire industry is probably only around $3-4 trillion in scale, but in the long run, it should be at the level of $300-400 trillion. We are still very early. For payments to mature, more financial products also need to be built.

Any new technology takes time to go mainstream. In 1995, people fantasized about video conferencing and VR meetings, but even today, VR meetings have not become widespread, and video calls still have the "Can you hear me? Can you see me?" problem. The maturity of technology often spans decades.

Crypto is even more disruptive, so it may take longer—even generations. But it will eventually happen.

How can crypto technology bring real value to emerging markets?

CZ: I believe developing countries actually have more opportunities. First, many places lack mature financial infrastructure. For example, in some African countries, the penetration rate of bank accounts is less than 11%. However, the adoption rate of smartphones is very fast—50%, 60%, or even 70%. This creates a perfect environment: people can immediately access financial services just by downloading an app. In many places, even the most basic payment networks do not exist.

I once received a letter from someone who said that in 2017, it took him three days to pay a bill, walking from his village to another town. After using cryptocurrency, it only took three minutes. This way, he saves three days every month. Moreover, he started to access new asset classes, even if it was just a small investment. He initially invested $50, which later grew to $300, and then to $1,000. For someone from a very poor country, a few hundred dollars is a significant improvement. His life underwent substantial changes, and he wrote me a very touching letter.

In many developing countries, the local currency is unstable, and inflation or even hyperinflation occurs frequently. Bitcoin and stablecoins provide them with a hedging tool. Some countries do not even have their own currency and can only use the U.S. dollar. When the Federal Reserve engages in quantitative easing, these countries do not receive any new money; they are passively "diluted." Therefore, for these places, cryptocurrencies may actually be a better choice.

Another characteristic of developing countries is that the population is very young. Young people naturally like crypto. For example, in Pakistan, where I have been collaborating, the average age is only 25. The population is young, open-minded, and they really like crypto. The government is also starting to realize that "we should go where the people want."

So it ultimately depends on the leadership of the country. If the leaders are open-minded and willing to seek the best path for the country, I strongly encourage them to embrace crypto technology. We are also very willing to help.

What progress has Giggle Academy made in promoting free education?

CZ: First of all, it is not a commercial project—it is a completely free educational platform. I just had a meeting with the team this morning. Giggle Academy currently serves about 88,000 children, adding about three to four thousand new students each week, and the growth rate is very fast.

The platform now has around 300 courses and two to three thousand storybooks. The main content is currently in English, and we have recently added some basic Arabic content. The storybooks are available in 30-40 language versions through AI. The team is continuously expanding the content and enhancing the interactive experience.

Currently, the interactive capabilities of AI are still not strong enough, especially the voice recognition effect when children speak is not ideal, and the team is working on this. The team now has about 60 full-time members and several hundred content contributors. For the first 8-9 months, I personally funded this initiative.

Later, we hoped to design an incentive mechanism for contributors, so we launched a donation page. Someone created a meme coin based on this project, which quickly brought about $11 million in donations to Giggle Academy. We are now planning how to use these funds to further expand the platform.

Overall, Giggle Academy is making great progress. It is not a business—all educational content is free. If your child is between 2 and 6 years old, you can give it a try. Children keep coming back to use it; it is very "addictive." They learn vocabulary, phonics, concepts, and more while playing games.

Next, we want to expand to more languages. We started with English, but later found that English content cannot simply be translated into Chinese or Arabic—each language needs to have courses redesigned in the most suitable way for that language. Therefore, we must build the curriculum system from scratch for each language, and we will do so.

In Abu Dhabi, the local leadership really likes this platform and has asked us to deploy it in local kindergartens. They are even willing to provide funding support, but we told them that money is not the limitation; the key is the capacity to expand deployment.

We also want to add Korean as soon as possible, but that depends on our course production capacity. In the long run, I hope to develop a set of tools that allow anyone to create course content themselves, which means making educational content truly user-generated (UGC). However, creating courses that children like, with excellent animation, and that can keep children focused is actually very difficult, and we are continuously optimizing this with AI technology.

This is a project I am truly passionate about. I spend several hours each week working with the team, and the team itself is working full-time on this.

What public welfare directions and social projects will you mainly support in the future?

CZ: First of all, I believe that money is not meant to be hoarded; it is a tool for doing things. Money allows us to promote truly meaningful initiatives. Currently, the public welfare direction I am mainly investing in is education. However, to be honest, I personally have not spent much—supporting the 60-person team at Giggle Academy has cost about one to two million dollars. Later, the community donated $11 million, but that is not my money and will all be used for the educational platform itself. As long as you are doing something truly valuable, fundraising is not particularly difficult.

As for my own wealth, I am still exploring how to invest more effectively. When I was leading Binance, we had a complete charity team that I could rely on. Now I no longer have that team, so I am considering rebuilding it—perhaps it doesn't need to be large; one or two people dedicated to researching different public welfare directions would be enough.

I have met many interesting people. For example, I met Bill McGlashan yesterday, who was a senior executive at a well-known VC and also served time for a very special and unprecedented case (ten years before me). I got to know him while going through that process myself. Now he is working on a social project researching new soil microbiomes. Due to fertilizers and over-farming, many soils around the world have lost their nutrients, and his project's goal is to restore soil health. He does not intend to make money from it—it is a non-profit project, but the business model is sustainable.

This type of project is what I am currently focusing on. I originally said I would not engage in climate-related public welfare, but the soil project is actually closely related to climate. Restoring soil can absorb about 30% of atmospheric lower-level carbon emissions. Although I am not an expert in this field, I often encounter people who are doing these truly impactful things.

Aside from education, I have not yet locked in on a specific public welfare theme; in other areas, I will rely more on expert judgment.

Additionally, I have been privately donating to an organization called Prison Professors for a long time, which focuses on prison education and support for incarcerated individuals. I donate anonymously through another organization, which helps orphans in countries like the U.S. and Thailand. So currently, my public welfare projects are distributed across several small directions and are still in the exploratory stage.

I personally hope that in the future, all donations can be fully on-chain and conducted using crypto, so that the entire process can be completely transparent and traceable to the final beneficiaries. But the reality is challenging: many final beneficiaries do not use crypto wallets. If we require that payments can only be received in crypto, the reach will become very limited. So this part needs to be balanced.

At this stage, I am trying to collaborate with different public welfare organizations to observe which ones are efficient and which can truly make an impact, and then decide which directions to support in the long term.

What will the world look like when one billion people use Web3?

CZ: I believe that ultimately everyone will naturally use Web3. In that future, we should no longer discuss terms like "crypto" or "Web3." Discussing crypto is like discussing TCP/IP—it is just a foundational protocol; discussing blockchain is like discussing the underlying structure of the network. Ordinary users should not even feel the existence of these technologies.

People should only say, "I want to pay someone," "I want to send something," or "I want to buy something." Just like today when we say, "I will Google it," the brand becomes a verb, and the technology itself is completely hidden. Ideally, users should not need to understand TPS, should not need to know transaction fees, should not need to know gas fees, and there should not even be a concept of "address." You should just be able to input the other person's name to make a payment.

We need to completely abstract away all complexity.

But right now, the technology and the industry as a whole have not yet developed to that point. We need to create better, easier-to-use products, and it doesn't necessarily have to be done solely by Binance; it will be an ecosystem formed by multiple applications and products.

Ultimately, I believe there will be a certain concentration effect in the ecosystem. Today, if you want to search for something, you usually use Google—although AI is challenging it now, network effects typically give rise to a dominant platform. I believe a similar pattern will emerge in Web3 in the future.

This is my vision for the future.

What are your thoughts on Binance's new leadership structure? Where will your focus be in the future?

CZ: I believe this is a very natural evolution. He Yi is a co-founder and has a great strategic vision, as well as being extremely diligent. She has a very close connection with the community—whether on Twitter or Chinese social media, she is very active, understands both the users and the product, and thinks very strategically. She is truly one of the most hardworking and resilient people I have ever met.

She has always had a significant influence within the company, and her current title is just a formalization of what she has already been doing. I believe she will continue to do well. The feedback so far has been generally positive. The Western market may not be very familiar with her, but Asian users know her well. Even the feedback I received from the West has been good, and I believe she will excel in this role.

She is also nine years younger than me, which is quite natural. I became CEO around the age of 40, and she is now at that stage. For her, taking on greater leadership responsibilities is a natural path. Although it is now a formal title, she has actually been informally taking on these responsibilities for quite some time.

Her abilities complement Richard's very well. Richard has a stronger background in regulation and is more fluent in English. Her English is indeed a limitation—although it is improving. When you listen to her speak, you will hear many grammatical errors, but she can convey information accurately. Moreover, her learning ability is very strong, which are all very rare qualities.

For me personally—when I stepped down as CEO of Binance, I actually cried. While writing that announcement blog post, it was 4 AM in Seattle, and I was crying as I wrote. It took me some time to adjust. But then I suddenly realized: life can be so easy. During that nearly year-long period in the U.S., I couldn't do anything, so I went skiing, kitesurfing, and so on. Later, when I returned to the company and saw everything running smoothly, I actually felt relieved. I realized that I didn't need to return to daily management.

Life is about moving forward, not backward.

Now I am more involved in ecosystem building—including projects in the BNB Chain ecosystem, helping different entrepreneurs, and collaborating more frequently with Nina. This is actually my first time meeting her in person—just in the first minute we met—although we often communicate online.

We help founders through projects like YZi Labs and Giggle Academy. I am also assisting different countries in developing crypto regulatory frameworks, thinking about the future of the crypto industry from the "regulatory side," which is quite interesting.

For me, not being involved in Binance's daily management is actually a good thing; it helps the growth of BNB Chain and the entire ecosystem. I enjoy my current work. The Binance team is already very strong, and a person should not stay in the same position for too long—moderate handovers and updates are beneficial for the organization and create opportunities for the next generation of leaders.

I believe this adjustment is a better direction for everyone.

What daily habits most promote your success?

CZ: I think learning something new every day is very important for success. What school teaches us is mostly reading, writing, basic logical thinking, and some math—these are the things we really remember. School does not teach you entrepreneurship, negotiation, leadership, financial literacy, or how startups operate. These essential life skills must be learned on your own.

If you are a professional, like a doctor or lawyer, you will use a lot of the knowledge learned in school. But for most people, especially entrepreneurs, you must continuously self-learn and learn from users. You need to maintain an open mindset. Learning a little every day can prevent your thinking from becoming rigid and allow you to continuously see new opportunities.

Another very important habit is: work hard while maintaining your health. Entrepreneurship is not only a mental endeavor but also a physical one; you must have a strong body. You need to cultivate good habits: being able to handle stress, sleeping well, eating healthily, exercising regularly, and taking care of your body. You must be able to work long hours while staying healthy—even if it’s 16 hours a day.

So for me, these habits are very important.

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