In Web3, DEPIN is rapidly becoming one of the most watched tracks. What exactly is it? How does it relate to the average person? What is its potential for future development? The following content is organized from The Defiant Podcast interview with Amira Valliani, the head of DEPIN at the Solana Foundation. If you want to know whether DEPIN is an opportunity you should pay attention to and how it can be implemented, this article is a must-read.
Q: Can you briefly introduce yourself and how you got into crypto and joined the Solana Foundation?
Amira Valliani (hereinafter A): I first started paying attention to crypto in 2017. However, at that time, I was mainly interested in community-built news platforms, especially local news. I kept wondering: could blockchain be used to establish community infrastructure, such as soft services like news writing, that is both shared and profitable?
Later, I switched to entrepreneurship and developed a paid podcast platform. Although it had nothing to do with crypto, it made me deeply aware of how difficult it is for content creators to collect small subscription fees. I never forgot the concept of "community building." After selling the company in 2021, I began to seriously consider returning to the crypto world.
Previously, I was involved in politics in Washington, and I had also worked at the White House and the State Department. I felt this was an opportunity that could integrate multiple interests of mine. After joining the Solana Foundation, I initially handled policy affairs, gradually got involved in strategic projects, and joined the Helium Foundation board, which naturally led me to take charge of the foundation's DEPIN-related work.
Q: You just mentioned policy affairs; the Solana Foundation is quite active in policy-making. Can you elaborate on what you have done in Washington?
A: Our primary task is actually "education." After all, policymakers generally do not understand blockchain, and we need to help them understand the impact of this technology on the real world, especially how it can help their constituents.
For example, early on, we invited Helium developers to Congress to introduce how to establish community-shared wireless networks through blockchain. Many legislators initially had misunderstandings about crypto, but when they saw the project in action and heard, "There are people in your district using the Helium network," they began to take this technology seriously.
Q: Your core work now is DEPIN. Can you explain what DEPIN is in simple terms and why it is so important?
A: DEPIN stands for "Decentralized Physical Infrastructure Networks." In simple terms, it uses Web3 incentives to turn the "fragmented resources" in people's hands into service technologies that can be packaged and used by others.
For example, we all use navigation apps every day, but the update of map data is actually very slow and costly. There is a project called HiveMapper, which is a decentralized mapping project. You just need to install a dashcam, and while commuting, it automatically collects map data along the way, and the system rewards you with tokens. This real map data updates faster than Google, covers a wider area, and is cheaper.
Another example is the Helium project, where you can use your excess WiFi bandwidth to deploy hotspots, contributing to the Helium network. Others can connect through it, and you earn tokens. Some large telecom companies like AT&T and T-Mobile also collaborate with them to use the Helium network to cover areas that are hard to reach.
Essentially, DEPIN addresses the challenge of "large-scale collaboration." Previously, only giant companies could spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build such infrastructure. Now, Web3 makes it feasible for everyone to participate.
Q: Are all physical resources suitable for DEPIN? Why have some traditional supply chain tracking technologies not succeeded?
A: Good question. First, I don't think supply chain tracking counts as DEPIN. The key to DEPIN is whether there is a market on both the supply and demand sides: one side is people who can collect data, such as those with idle bandwidth, devices, or location resources; the other side is companies that need this data.
If you are just putting the status of an item on the chain, that is more like a B2B traceability tool and doesn't really count as DEPIN. DEPIN is more about integrating distributed resources and turning data into services that can be widely traded. Therefore, information that is frequently needed and dynamically updated, such as map data, WiFi bandwidth, and edge computing, is particularly suitable for DEPIN.
Q: DEPIN has a strong relationship with AI. Can you elaborate on how these two can be combined?
A: I believe AI is one of the core driving forces behind DEPIN that I am most optimistic about. Most of us currently interact with AI by just opening ChatGPT or Perplexity and chatting a bit; the application layer of AI is still stuck on computers. I think in the next decade, AI will enter reality and become a part of our lives, such as in self-driving cars, delivery robots, and vacuum robots, etc.
What do these "real-world" AIs need? The answer is—real-world data. For example, self-driving cars need to know if there are potholes ahead, if road signs have changed, or if there is construction on the street. The data from Google sending a few cars out each year to scan is simply not enough.
This is where DEPIN can play a role. Again, using HiveMapper as an example, it is a decentralized mapping project where users only need to install a dashcam and can collect data while driving, earning token rewards. The speed of data updates far exceeds Google and can cover remote areas—it's a data paradise for AI.
Another example is Matrix Rover, which drives small cars equipped with high-precision cameras on the streets, capturing extremely clear images used to train self-driving systems. This data is much more detailed than traditional "street view" data and is extremely valuable for AI.
Q: Is this data only for big companies? Can the data collected by DEPIN serve decentralized AI?
A: Indeed, most AI is currently controlled by large companies, such as OpenAI, Google, and Meta. However, in the past two years, the crypto space has begun to see the emergence of decentralized AI projects aimed at creating an AI network that is not monopolized by large factories. Here, the real-world data provided by DEPIN is particularly important.
Additionally, not only data is needed; training AI also requires massive GPU computing power. However, GPUs are too expensive for ordinary teams to purchase, while countless idle GPUs are distributed across personal computers, workstations, and laboratories worldwide. If these GPUs can be connected through a DEPIN network, it would be a civilian version of an AI supercomputing cluster. Many projects are working on this, such as io.net, Akash, and Render, which are establishing decentralized GPU networks to allow small teams to train AI. The underlying philosophy is to liberate both data and computing power, the two core elements of AI, from centralized monopolies.
Q: Will it be difficult to promote these things in reality? For example, with high interest rates, difficult financing, and complex policies, will it hinder the development of DEPIN?
A: What you mentioned is exactly why now is a good time for DEPIN. Traditional infrastructure, such as building a communication tower, might cost millions of dollars, and you have to go through procedures, raise investments, and get approvals. But now, financing is expensive, and many projects simply cannot move forward.
The uniqueness of DEPIN lies in that it does not rely on a single large institution for investment; instead, it breaks projects into smaller pieces, allowing countless individual users to participate in construction, such as deploying a hotspot or installing a sensor. You only need to invest a few hundred dollars, and the system will reward you with tokens, making you a network builder.
So, DEPIN essentially breaks down high-barrier tasks into things that everyone can participate in. This is actually a great solution for the current macro environment of high interest rates and high costs.
Q: You mentioned that DEPIN is a "trillion-dollar" industry in the future. How can we achieve such explosive growth?
A: Currently, DEPIN may only have a scale of a few billion dollars, but its growth rate is very fast. I believe the explosive points will come from three directions:
Mature tools: In the past, if you wanted to start a DEPIN project, you had to build the system from scratch and deploy the chain yourself. Now, service providers like Solana, chart platforms, and data query tools are readily available, significantly lowering the development threshold.
AI driving data demand: The rapid development of AI has made real-world data exceptionally important, and DEPIN is the best data collection network. The more AI develops, the more popular DEPIN will become.
More "knowledgeable" entrepreneurs entering the field: Many of the founders currently working on DEPIN have backgrounds in hardware, infrastructure, and a deep understanding of the industry. They are not the type to "raise money first and figure it out later," but rather genuinely use crypto to solve old problems, having first identified pain points and then chosen to use Web3 methods to address them. So I say the key to DEPIN's explosion is a large batch of "practical" founders entering Web3. They know how to get things done, and that is core.
Q: Is it possible for ordinary people like me to earn a living by participating in DEPIN projects?
A: Absolutely. I met someone in Mexico whose full-time job is running a HiveMapper fleet. He bought a bunch of dashcams and then found a group of rideshare and taxi drivers to install the equipment, helping him map every day. He manages the backend, profit sharing, and equipment maintenance, turning it into his "personal mapping company." There are also people who specialize in the operation and maintenance of Helium hotspots, deploying networks, maintaining nodes, and acting as regional agents, etc.
These are all new job opportunities that do not require you to know how to code; as long as you can use equipment and manage resources, you can participate in a Web3 network and start earning money.
Conclusion: DEPIN sounds very "technical," but it is actually a very simple logic: breaking down the resources we encounter in the real world into smaller pieces and using incentive mechanisms to encourage people to participate actively. It allows us to see a future where everyone has the opportunity to participate in the construction of AI. If you missed the early days of Bitcoin and Ethereum, this might be your entry opportunity.
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