Original Editor: Wu Says Blockchain
In this conversation, Colin, the founder of Wu Says, discusses with "Memecoin New King" Murad Mahmudov the unique role and prospects of Memecoins (such as Doge, Pepe, etc.) in the cryptocurrency space. Murad shares his journey from a Bitcoin believer to a Memecoin investor and explains the community-driven force behind the success of Memecoins. He believes that Memecoins are not just objects of short-term speculation but a form of social innovation, possessing a stronger "crowd wealth creation" potential compared to traditional VC tokens. Murad emphasizes the importance of evaluating the Memecoin community and leadership, predicting that participation from the Asian market will drive a global Memecoin craze. Additionally, he takes a wait-and-see approach towards AI Memecoins, suggesting that more time is needed to assess their community vitality.
Murad's Self-Introduction
Colin: Hi, Murad. Some people call you the new generation "King of Memecoins," and you became more famous after the 2049 summit in Singapore. First, could you introduce your background and experiences?
Murad: Sure. My name is Murad, I’m from Azerbaijan, and I went to college in the United States. During that time, I spent a year in China, specifically in Beijing. That year was special because it was the end of 2013 when Bitcoin experienced a bubble, reaching $1,000 for the first time. I was fortunate to meet friends from both the East and West in Beijing, who were early members of the Bitcoin community, which introduced me to cryptocurrency.
I took a break for a while, but from 2016-2017, I became more deeply involved in the cryptocurrency space. I worked in traditional finance in Hong Kong and was also a commodities trader in Singapore. But starting in 2017, I began to fully dedicate myself to the crypto field—writing, reading, investing, trading, and analyzing various patterns and trends in the industry. Currently, I am building a DeFi protocol, but I am also very focused on investing, trading, and analyzing Memecoins. Memecoins are my core focus in this cycle.
East Asian Studies and Finance at Princeton
Colin: I read your interview, and some people mentioned that you graduated from one of the top universities in the United States, Princeton University. This is also part of your reputation in the community—people say you focus more on data and charts when analyzing Memecoins rather than just the "hype" techniques, right? Can you tell everyone how you got into Princeton and what you studied there?
Murad: I applied as an international student. I feel a bit lucky because coming from Azerbaijan, I faced slightly less competition compared to some of my international friends from China. My main focus at Princeton was East Asian Studies and Finance—this is my core interest. I really enjoyed my time there, met many excellent classmates and professors, and I’m truly glad to have had that experience.
Early Crypto Career and Insights on OKX
Colin: What did you do after graduation? When did you officially join the crypto industry? I saw in your interview that you met some OKX employees in Beijing. Is this related to your entry into the crypto industry? You also mentioned that your previous fund faced setbacks around 2020. Can you talk about that?
Murad: Back in 2013, OKX was still called OKCoin, and there were only four people—three Chinese and one foreigner. That foreigner happened to be a friend of mine in Beijing, who encouraged me by saying, "You need to get into BTC, you need to study BTC." This was indeed my first exposure to Bitcoin. However, for the next two or three years, I didn’t do much in the crypto space. It was around 2016-2017 that I returned to the crypto field and committed full-time.
Transitioning from Traditional Trading to Memecoins
Colin: When you first joined the crypto industry, you weren't focused on Memecoins, right? You were more inclined towards traditional trading?
Murad: That's correct. In 2017, I did hold a little Dogecoin, but I wasn't a true believer at that time—I was more like someone trying out ICOs, altcoins, and other trading opportunities occasionally. I was exploring this field in 2016 and 2017, but by 2018, I became a Bitcoin extremist, a hardcore Bitcoin enthusiast.
What many people don’t understand is that much of Bitcoin's philosophy and literature is excellent preparation for understanding today’s Memecoin space. Why? Because today’s Memecoin craze is about building community, almost like establishing a "faith" or a new technological "religion." In this sense, Bitcoin has always been the largest and most successful community "faith" of this type. Therefore, my view is that successful Memecoins are those projects that have community and faith followings similar to BTC. Doge is also a key influence because it was one of the early successful Memecoins.
To answer your question, I did have some Dogecoin in 2017, but I sold it in 2018—at that time, I was holding it more casually. However, by 2023-2024, I began to see the potential of Memecoins and became a more steadfast believer in the Memecoin space.
Bitcoin Has Meme Qualities, but Primarily as a Store of Value
Colin: So you believe Bitcoin also has meme qualities, right? Are you still a Bitcoin extremist?
Murad: In terms of currency, yes, I still consider myself a Bitcoin maximalist. I believe Bitcoin is a core currency, while Memecoins are not "currencies" in the true sense; they are different asset classes. So, is BTC a Memecoin? BTC does have some meme qualities, but I would categorize it this way: about 80% of Bitcoin is a store of value, 10% is a medium of exchange, and 10% is meme. Memecoins, on the other hand, are the opposite—about 90% is meme, and perhaps only 10% serves as currency or store of value, or other functions. Different asset classes in cryptocurrency have these components, but the proportions vary.
The Success of Memecoins Comes from Fair Distribution and Community, While VC Tokens Struggle Due to Overvaluation
Colin: Looking back over the past year, what do you think has driven the popularity or success of Memecoins? Does this also reflect the failure of VC-backed tokens?
Murad: There are several reasons behind this trend, and I’ll mention a few. First, when altcoins first became popular in 2017, many initial valuations were reasonable. For example, you could buy Binance Coin (BNB) at an initial valuation of about $30 million. Chainlink (LINK) was around $25 million, and even Ethereum's issuance valuation was close to $35 million. These starting points are crucial for sustainable growth.
Now, many VC tokens go through several rounds of private financing before being opened to the public. When these tokens launch and become available for public trading, the initial valuations are often very high—sometimes reaching $10 billion or even $15 billion—even though they lack a user base, revenue, or even complete software. When a token launches at such a high valuation without substantial backing, its price is almost destined to fall.
In the past 5-6 years, I’ve referred to this practice as "global IQ arbitrage." VCs are essentially taking advantage of globally uninformed investors. The problem is that many retail investors treat tokens like stocks or equity, but this is a misunderstanding. In reality, these tokens often have a very loose connection to the underlying software, or even lack substantial association.
What we face now is an oversupply of tokens and inflated valuations. Many newly launched tokens continue to decline in price after being listed on major centralized exchanges, and there are still $160 billion worth of tokens set to unlock over the next four years. This situation creates a poor investment environment for ordinary investors.
I believe more and more people, especially younger investors, are realizing that these so-called "tech" altcoins are essentially just Memecoins with a "tech" label. If they ultimately turn out to be just Memecoins, why pay a high price of $20 billion for VC-backed tokens instead of participating in early ICO tokens like Chainlink or BNB? When you launch a project early, gradually grow the community, and cultivate a fair, grassroots-driven development approach, it creates a genuine journey that benefits ordinary people.
When ordinary people can accumulate wealth through Memecoins, it forms a passionate and loyal community. Those who profit from the success of Memecoins often leave their jobs to fully engage in promoting, growing, and strengthening the community. This is why Memecoins can establish strong faith followings. This fair opportunity is causing altcoins to lose their edge, while Memecoins are currently thriving.
Advice to Hold Selected High-Quality Memecoins for the Long Term
Colin: You’ve talked a lot about holding Memecoins, but some people believe Memecoins are just short-term trading assets. Why do you think Memecoins can be held long-term? When is the right time to sell?
Murad: My overall philosophy is to stop trading and focus on holding—or what we call "hodling." I know that 99.999% of Memecoins are just speculative projects; they are highly volatile and fluctuate up and down almost daily due to speculation. But my point is that in this cycle, about 10 to 20 Memecoins will be able to sustain development.
These Memecoins will have strong, almost "faith-like" communities—similar to Dogecoin, which has succeeded across multiple cycles. Doge has performed well over three cycles, and we believe that in this cycle, three to five Memecoins will continue to perform well across multiple cycles. These Memecoins will set new highs across multiple cycles, then form higher lows, and even by 2027 and beyond, they may peak again in 2028-2029.
So, I am not focused on short-term trading or gambling with Memecoins; my goal is to identify projects that can be held for more than a year. As for when to sell, I suggest taking partial profits in the fourth quarter of 2025 or the first quarter of 2026—about a year from now. That’s why I encourage everyone to look for those high-quality Memecoins with strong communities and hold them as long-term investments.
The Key to Investing in Memecoins Lies in Community Strength and "Diamond Hands"
Colin: I know you have selected some of the best tokens in your opinion. But what strategies would you recommend for the community or others to help them choose Memecoins?
Murad: The key is to understand that when you invest in Memecoins, you are not just investing in the meme itself—you are investing in the people behind it. Researching and analyzing the community is crucial. Look at the average investor in that community, the largest holders, the leadership team, their activity on social media, and the concepts they promote.
My point is that some selected Memecoins will have a "diamond hands" culture, meaning there are committed long-term holders. You can actually track these behaviors through on-chain data and analytical tools, rather than relying solely on subjective impressions. Look for communities that have a strong "hodling" culture and diamond hands; these are worth investing in.
Overall, seek out Memecoin projects that realistically have the potential to reach market capitalizations of $10 billion, $20 billion, or even $50 billion. If the community truly believes they can reach these levels, many will choose to hold rather than sell. This way, you can treat it as an investment rather than just a trade.
Limited Impact of the U.S. Election; Global Economic Factors are the Main Drivers
Colin: Do you think the outcome of the U.S. election will affect Memecoins?
Murad: I don’t think so. While Trump may be slightly friendlier to cryptocurrencies, the popularity and success of cryptocurrencies, especially Memecoins, do not depend on the four-year election cycle. Instead, I believe that long-term economic issues like inflation and global money supply are driving people towards cryptocurrencies and Memecoins, rather than any political events.
Public Wallet Addresses Have Little Impact; Holding Strategies are Also Public
Colin: Does publicly sharing your wallet address affect you? Some say your address is already public, right?
Murad: Yes, many people already know my address; it has been public for a while. I have no problem with this because anyone can check my wallet and see that I only buy and do not sell. I have mentioned in many podcasts and different occasions that I plan to take partial profits in the fourth quarter of 2025. People can verify that I am indeed doing what I said.
Meme Projects Need Market Makers, but Choose "Clean" Partners
Colin: What do you think about the role of market makers in the Memecoin space? For example, companies like Wintermute or DWF? We also saw GSR, another major market maker, recently facing troubles with the U.S. government, yet they are still involved in many Memecoin projects, right?
Murad: My view is that some market makers operate transparently, while others do not. I won’t name names, but if you are part of a Memecoin project, you will inevitably need a market maker, especially when listing on tier-one exchanges. My advice is to choose a clean market maker with a good reputation and transparency to ensure the project runs smoothly and maintains a good image.
Centralized Exchanges Remain Key Sources of Liquidity for Memecoins
Colin: What are your thoughts on the importance of centralized exchanges for Memecoins, such as being listed on Binance?
Murad: I believe centralized exchanges are still important because many users do not engage in on-chain trading but focus on centralized platforms. Hundreds of millions of people use these exchanges. While their importance may gradually diminish in each cycle, they remain significant participants in this cycle for liquidity and access.
Solana is the Preferred Platform for Memecoins, but Multi-Chain is the Future Trend
Colin: In the Asian community, there has been some discussion about Solana and Ethereum—especially since Solana has performed well in this cycle. Why are most Memecoins issued on Solana, and does Ethereum still have a chance?
Murad: Most Memecoins choose Solana because it is cheaper and faster. Young people are active on platforms like TikTok and Twitter all day, seeking speed, which makes Solana more attractive. So, yes, currently about 99% of Memecoins are on Solana.
However, I believe the best Memecoins will eventually launch on both Solana and Ethereum, and even expand to more chains through cross-chain bridges (like Wormhole) and other cross-chain solutions. In the future, I expect the strongest Memecoins to develop in a multi-chain manner. Personally, I am not too concerned about which specific chain it is; I am more focused on reaching as many chains as possible. You can think of each chain as a centralized exchange providing access channels for different user groups. Therefore, the more chains involved with Memecoins, the more beneficial it is for their distribution and community growth.
Focus on Ethereum and Solana, Less on the Bitcoin Ecosystem
Colin: So, do you also pay attention to Bitcoin Ordinals or other projects on that chain? Do you think Memecoins will also appear in Bitcoin's layer 1 ecosystem or on platforms like TON?
Murad: To be honest, I don’t pay much attention to the Bitcoin ecosystem. I have some interest in Bitcoin Ordinals and certain projects (like Bitcoin "punks"), but most of my focus remains on Ethereum and Solana. These two platforms have historically had a more active Memecoin culture, are closer to retail users, and can better attract new users while providing more experimental space for new applications and infrastructure. TON is also interesting, but I believe that in this cycle, the main capital and innovation for Memecoins will flow towards Ethereum and Solana.
Looking Forward to Increased Participation from the Asian Market in Memecoins
Colin: Additionally, many well-known Memecoins are still concentrated in the Western world, right? Are there any notable Memecoins in Asia or the Eastern markets?
Murad: Yes, we are indeed seeing a growing interest in Asia. For example, the Pepe community has a large following in China, and smaller tokens like Pop Cat are also popular throughout Asia. From my current observations, I believe that in the coming months, especially starting in the first quarter of 2025, more communities from China, Korea, and Japan will join the Memecoin space. Right now, Western participation is indeed more significant, but I expect Memecoins to become a truly global phenomenon next year.
AI Memecoins Have Potential, but Need Time to Mature
Colin: Additionally, recently AI tokens supported by a16z have become very popular, but it seems there are no AI-themed Memecoins that you support, right? What are your thoughts on AI-themed Memecoins? Would you consider adding them to your portfolio?
Murad: I am still researching AI tokens. I do believe that AI-themed Memecoins will form a distinct category, just like dog or cat-themed tokens. I think they will become a unique classification within the Memecoin space.
However, at the end of the day, Memecoins are not a technological innovation; they are a social innovation. My point is that the core of Memecoins lies in people and community. Since AI tokens are relatively new, their communities need more time to develop. They require more price fluctuations and sideways movements to allow the community to grow and solidify. Therefore, I may need another month or two to observe the stability of these AI tokens and see which ones have strong price support and community growth. These are typically the factors I value.
Colin: I understand. I have many friends who primarily trade Memecoins because, as you said, the valuations of VC tokens are very high, making it difficult for ordinary people to profit. For many, VC tokens are easier to lose money on, while Memecoins provide a more accessible opportunity. Tokens that launch on major exchanges often see price declines, which is disappointing.
Murad: Yes, that’s absolutely correct.
Colin: Alright, thank you for your time.
Murad: Thank you, I really appreciate it!
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