Original | Odaily Planet Daily (@OdailyChina)
Author｜jk
Recently, Odaily exclusively interviewed Spencer, the current head of Moonbirds, to delve into the journey of this legendary figure from a fencer to an NFT investor, and then to an NFT brand revitalizer. Spencer was not only one of the largest holders of Pudgy Penguins but was also chosen to take over Moonbirds from Yuga Labs and lead its revival. In this in-depth conversation, he shared his unique insights on the NFT market, the future vision for Moonbirds, and how to find undervalued opportunities in a bear market.
What impressed me most during the interview was Spencer's rapid-fire insights and quick responses, each answer packed with a wealth of alpha perspectives. His deep understanding of product strategy was remarkable, covering everything from the technology innovation cycle to the evolution of IP value, from consumer psychology to brand positioning. Let's take a look at what he had to say about the NFT market in 2025 and the future of Moonbirds.
Q: Let's start with an introduction! Can you introduce yourself to the readers?
Spencer: My background is quite unique; I've taken a rather winding path. In my early years, I was a competitive fencer on the U.S. national team, representing the U.S. in the World Cup and Grand Prix events for foil. During my fencing career, I began working at an ed-tech startup, eventually being promoted to the executive team, securing millions of dollars in contracts for the company, and orchestrating several rounds of venture capital. Later, I left that company to study economics at the University of Chicago, and after graduation, I held executive positions at several startups.
After the pandemic broke out, I shifted to venture capital, primarily focusing on seed and early-stage investments. During this time, I re-engaged with cryptocurrency and thought when I saw NFTs, "This makes sense; it's like venture capital with cryptocurrency." I invested early in Bored Apes, RTFKT, Cool Cats, and several other projects. Within 8 months, my portfolio grew by about 8000%; during that time, I met many people and raised a fund. When FTX collapsed, most of the fund's capital was in cash, and I actively deployed funds during that period. It was during this time that we became one of the largest holders of Pudgy Penguins.
Since then, I have closely followed every round of venture capital for the Pudgy Penguins team and helped their executive team think through product strategy. Then in 2023, when Luca was looking for new product categories after the plush toys, we suggested, "You should create a trading card game." The team quickly approved it, and we were asked to help them design and produce this product, which the public now knows as Vibes TCG. This experience truly crystallized our decades-long passion for this product category, and it has been our honor to see the web 2 and web 3 communities genuinely embrace it.
During this process, we thought, "What if we did this for our own IP?" Soon after, we had the opportunity to acquire Moonbirds from Yuga Labs. Ultimately, we bought Moonbirds and are now in the process of a revival plan to bring the true Birbs back.
Q: Let's talk about Moonbirds: What are your short-term and long-term visions for Moonbirds?
Spencer: The short-term vision at the time of acquisition was simple: make owning a Moonbird cool again and solidify the brand's culture. There are already so many legends and backgrounds behind Moonbirds, and we believe reactivating it won't be difficult.
For me, the 2021 NFT bull market was the most enjoyable time in my crypto journey; it was a lot of fun. I think many people feel the same way. Moonbirds peaked during that time. For many, Moonbirds carries complex memories—both the best memories and possibly the most painful ones, as you had to watch it decline.
In the short term, our top priority is to make owning a Moonbird fun and cool again. I think the previous management's issue was that they didn't frequently release products, activate projects, or host experiential events, hoarding a lot but spending a lot. So after we took over, we aimed to release as much content as possible in the first 70 to 90 days.
We adopted a sprint approach to make it cool again, particularly focusing on the rebranding of "Birb" (B-I-R-B) and "Birbish." This can be seen as a brand refresh. I feel that the "moon" part of Moonbirds is more reminiscent of the previous cycle's cryptocurrency style, and there aren't many moon-related projects in cryptocurrency now. What we really want to do is convey this message to a younger audience, as Gen Z is clearly driving more narratives now.
So we have been systematically shifting the brand from Moonbirds to Birb and Birbish. You can see this from the changes in our avatars; the style is more avant-garde, more anime-like, and more meme-oriented. One thing that Birb and Birbish do well is that they can integrate into the language you use daily. Becoming a part of language and expression is fundamental to meme propagation.
Q: When you acquired Moonbirds, the NFT market was not performing well. Did you identify key opportunities that others might have missed?
Spencer: Absolutely.** I believe there is a fundamental shift happening in the cryptocurrency space. In previous cycles, technology was the main driver of growth—better incremental technologies emerged, and whoever had the better technology won.
But over the past four years, we haven't seen much technological innovation, and the existing technology is already quite good. People don't discuss this enough. The technology is indeed excellent. This is common in the adoption and innovation curve—when an industry like cryptocurrency grows rapidly for a few years, technological innovation is no longer the driving factor. Companies with slightly better technology no longer have a differentiated advantage.
We see that the companies winning in the crypto space today rely on influence, mind share, and other factors, which are largely driven by IP. Historically, IP has been a driving force globally. So NFTs are on-chain IP. Frankly, there aren't many truly excellent crypto-native IPs, and Moonbirds is one of them. Although I may be biased, I believe it is the best. But regardless of my opinion, it is at least one of the top NFT brands—this is hard to refute.
If you agree that the next wave of cryptocurrency adoption comes from culture and IP, it must be NFTs. There is nothing else in cryptocurrency that can achieve this in the same way.
Why do many new adoption cycles come from external sources—from public markets, from new user groups? Their entry points are different from before. For these audiences, it is important to have content that they can understand and digest. This is also why we have historically focused on physical collectibles. We believe this can connect the two worlds well.
For new users just getting into cryptocurrency, saying "There are these birds on the blockchain" might not be enticing enough. But saying "Hold this physical Birb," and then explaining it comes from blockchain IP tells a better story.
Q: What was the biggest challenge when taking over Moonbirds?
Spencer: When we took over Moonbirds, the situation regarding NFT trading volume and our position within it had changed significantly. But the problem is that NFTs are simply unpopular, and they still haven't reached the levels of 2021. We have a brand that has essentially been dormant for a long time, how do we reactivate it? How do we make it relevant again?
I don't even want to talk about past challenges because there are still many ongoing challenges. One of the biggest challenges is that we have made it cool again within the crypto circle. I think Moonbirds has indeed become cool again in the crypto space. But this can only last for a while; the crypto circle won't stay on the same hot topic for long.
So the key question is: how do we convert success within the crypto circle into success outside of it? And then how do we bring that external success back into the crypto circle? I think this back-and-forth is very important.
Right now, we are super focused on "how to leverage this momentum to achieve success outside of the crypto circle, outside of our bubble?" Moonbirds has an interesting characteristic in that it essentially exists as a brand only on Twitter, with no Instagram or other platforms.
One of the strategies we are formulating is how to truly explode outside of Twitter. I believe this will be key in the next 12 to 18 months.
Q: You are one of the largest holders of Pudgy; what do you plan to learn from Pudgy's activation strategy and ultimately apply to Moonbirds?
Spencer: There is a lot to learn. Many things in this industry today were pioneered by Luca (referring to Pudgy Penguins' creator Luca Netz), and I have great admiration for what he has done and is doing. He has essentially defined the playbook that most people follow today for viral growth.
One point that Luca strongly advocates, which I agree with, is the theory of physical collectibles. Having items on people's tables at home is really important; it connects Web 2 and Web 3.
One thing Luca has done well is to adopt many cutting-edge practices from outside the crypto space within the crypto realm. What are the marketing trends? How to market any product? How to create products?
One of the most interesting things Luca has done is that Pudgy's Instagram page is not a crypto page at all; it's an IP page.
In terms of achieving success within the crypto circle, I think Luca has done the best job of timing. In the crypto space, when to do something is often more important than what to do, which is fascinating.
What we have learned is this sprint mentality: create noise within the crypto circle and leverage that to achieve collaborations outside. Create noise for our collaborations outside and use that to gain more collaborations within the crypto circle. This back-and-forth sprinting approach is something Pudgy excels at.
We think about differentiation in that this is a completely different brand targeting different consumer groups. Pudgy is very suitable for families and children, while Moonbirds targets an older, more avant-garde audience. This is not the direction it has historically taken, but it is the direction we are pushing forward.
When you start to engage with the 12 to 14 age group, they are not looking at children's content; they are looking up. So we are targeting the range of 14 to 35 years old. For me, the main trend in consumer products is not the mass adoption that most people think, but rather "affordable luxury."
We see that the customer base of major luxury brands like Louis Vuitton, Gucci, and Prada is getting younger, and the spending per purchase is decreasing. This is why challenger brands like Popmart are emerging. The current younger generation cannot afford to buy houses and are not saving for home purchases, so they have disposable income. While it may not be unlimited, it could be enough for a $150 T-shirt instead of a $1000 one.
The focus is not on selling the most single items, but on providing the highest quality experience for consumers. Pudgy focuses on the mass-market route for Walmart toys, while our approach is slightly different—it's a bit older, more like a brand that is not entirely luxury but also not a regular brand. It needs to showcase a sense of avant-garde in an interesting way. The hardest thing for a brand to do is to become interesting. That’s what we are striving for, and we hope to succeed.
Q: Do you envision any cross-industry collaborations between Moonbirds and Pudgy or BAYC?
Spencer: We haven't announced any collaborations yet. I have a good relationship with both Luca and Garga, who are on our investor list, so it’s not impossible to do something together in the future. But so far, there are no publicly announced plans.
We are engaged in many different collaborations. For us, what we really care about is collaborations outside the crypto circle. I believe that is where the real growth lies. We have found that simply winning the mind share of a crypto-native audience is not enough to develop a brand.
If you grow outside the crypto circle, your brand will also grow within it because people in the circle want to see growth outside. But if you only develop your brand within the crypto circle, people outside simply do not care.
So our conclusion is that actively developing outside the crypto circle is the right strategy. We are collaborating with many Web 2 brands, serving as a bridge for them to enter the crypto space and for us to step out of the crypto circle.
An important shift is how many brands genuinely care about the crypto audience now. I remember four years ago during the last cycle, there was controversy around brands doing crypto-related things; now, not doing so is controversial.
This is the powerful bridging role of crypto-native IP—crypto-native IP is something these brands can understand. Physical products are also something these brands can grasp. I always describe Moonbirds as a platform for growth, collaboration, and activation, a platform that is very powerful, allowing us to collaborate with other strong platforms both within and outside the industry.
Q: Older Moonbirds holders are looking for clear utility. What do you think they should expect this year in terms of roadmap or milestones?
Spencer: From the very beginning of the acquisition, I was clear about one thing: I believe one of the biggest mistakes NFT projects make is making very specific but distant promises. Our core principle is that we will basically only tell everyone when things happen.
One reason we do this is that you don’t want to be locked into something that becomes a huge burden or promise, especially when it is no longer relevant. This means that every time we deliver anything, it must be exciting.
We do not make specific commitments for the next period. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t doing anything. Just look at what has happened—that’s also why I think people are paying more attention to us now. When we first bought Moonbirds, I made it clear in various podcasts and interviews that "I am not encouraging you to buy in heavily," and at that time, people were not excited. But then we started releasing things.
One of the important early works we did was the airdrop campaign, where we obtained airdrops for our NFT holders from other protocols. This is a great way to show them direct and immediate utility.
But you shouldn’t hold a Moonbird just for third-party airdrops. You should hold it because you want to be part of this journey, whatever that journey may look like. I’m here to tell you that I am working every day to make this journey as exciting as possible.
You don’t need to take my word for it; just look at our journey over the past 70 to 90 days. I think the sheer number of activation events speaks volumes. We have a rapidly growing community, with people talking about us every day, and the growth in mind share is enormous. This is because we are becoming relevant and integrating all these parts together.
The real goal—this is always the answer—is to develop the platform. We can do cool and interesting activations, like Telegram stickers, Monad testnet tokens, and Towns airdrops. All of these come from the platform we have—this platform combines my platform, the Moonbirds platform, and the more powerful emerging platform we create when we combine.
What specific opportunities will arise in the next 6 to 18 months? I hope I don’t know all the answers today because our goal is to be in a position where we can seize any opportunity that arises.
But ultimately, you should own a Moonbird because you like them and want to be with us, with the community. If you don’t genuinely like them, there’s no reason to hold. But if you want to do these things, want to participate in all the cool projects we are doing, I won’t give you advance notice. I won’t say, "Now is the time; you must own it by this date." That’s not our style.
By the time you realize you should own it, it will already be too late for what you want. So you can only believe that cool things are coming soon. If that’s the case, then all the birds will have something to eat.
Q: Your company is called Orange Cap Games. Do you envision Moonbirds entering gaming, apparel, or other industries in the future?
Spencer: The "Games" part of Orange Cap Games is because the first product we are launching is a game, but Orange Cap is not just a game studio. One of our advantages is having a complete physical product manufacturing team in Asia, which is a significant difference from other companies.
When it comes to how to use Moonbirds IP, there are many different layers to that answer. I wouldn’t reject any of the areas you just mentioned, but none have been announced yet. How to activate and use Moonbirds IP is an ongoing open question.
One thing that is certain is that we won’t say "Moonbirds IP only makes sense for this one thing." It will be a combination of several different aspects, and we will double down on the most successful areas.
Today, Moonbirds IP exists in Telegram stickers—that’s one of the things we did after the acquisition. Are we a Telegram sticker company? No, that’s just one of the products derived from Moonbirds IP.
Our goal is that if we are going to make a game, we need to make the best game. If we are going to make stickers, we need to make the best stickers. Whatever product we make, it should be the best version in that category.
I think there are two types of activations: one is immediately actionable, like all the airdrops we have received, because they are digitally native and don’t require manufacturing time and delivery cycles. The other type is the activations we have planned for 6, 12, or 18 months, which require delivery cycles, and many of those are currently in progress. But we won’t announce things until we are ready.
Q: How do you view the changes in the Moonbirds community now compared to when you first took over? Is there anything you want to say to them?
Spencer: The Moonbirds community is fantastic. When we acquired Moonbirds, I wasn’t sure how many people were left in the previous community, but many came out to support us, and they are genuinely invested.
I think the defining characteristic of the Moonbirds community is that they are all forward-thinking people at the forefront of technology. This is the crowd that was attracted when Moonbirds first launched, and I believe it still is.
One of the most important things we need to do for Moonbirds, and have been doing, is to make it feel like it’s at the forefront again. Because that’s what attracts everyone and makes it interesting.
When we received the Towns airdrop, our community was using Towns. We are the third-largest group staking Towns tokens in the Towns community. This data is impressive because other NFT communities didn’t even make the top 25.
The beauty of the Moonbirds community is that they are real people, real product users, genuinely interested in things. That’s why we have such a strong partner channel because people recognize this. It’s hard to find real signals on Twitter now; there’s too much noise. But the Moonbirds community genuinely engages.
Q: As an NFT investor, what is the biggest mistake you have made, or what do you see as the biggest mistake? How do you ensure that this mistake won’t be repeated now as the project leader?
Spencer: I think one of the biggest mistakes NFT founders have historically made is making overly ambitious promises before they are truly ready to launch and overreacting to market fluctuations or assuming that market changes represent their own changes.
People can become very emotional about macro fluctuations in cryptocurrency. I think it’s important to stick to your planned route, not to overcommit to the wrong things, and not to let the entire project rely on a single activation.
The only thing you can rely on is the growth of the platform. As long as the platform continues, you’re fine. Therefore, putting all your platform eggs in one basket is a mistake. You should activate the platform in various ways, doubling down on what works effectively, rather than betting everything on one big activation. This also allows you to act more agilely and seize opportunities more quickly.
Q: From a macro industry perspective, where do you think we currently stand?
Spencer: This is not a bear market; it is definitely a bull market, and I think that is very clear.**
One of the most important things in any market is where the new capital inflows are coming from. There is now a lot of new capital coming in from public markets. The changes in the U.S. regulatory environment—America is much friendlier to cryptocurrency—have really opened the floodgates for many types of capital.
I believe the structural support behind cryptocurrency in this cycle is much stronger than in past cycles. So even if there is a pullback at the end of the cycle, I don’t think it will be as severe, and I think more people are waiting to buy the dip.
When FTX collapsed, people were genuinely worried that the industry was going to fail. The same was true when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed. But with the involvement of major institutions like BlackRock, large-scale ETF trading, and the opening of retirement accounts—I don’t think anyone realistically believes this industry could end.
I think we have passed that hurdle. People look at past charts and say, "We had a 98% pullback in the bear market"—I don’t think this time will be like that. I believe this market has a lot of room to grow, at least until the end of the year, and possibly even longer.
I think this is the cycle where ETH and Bitcoin gain structural support. Over time, this must expand to more assets. When we start to see more long-tail assets gain structural support—I think that is inevitable—the best strategy is to look for companies that exist today but have not yet participated in structural support; they will eventually get involved.
Being a U.S. company and meeting standards in many ways is actually a huge advantage because it allows you to access these opportunities more. We are very involved in the public markets. My fund, Orange Cap Capital, is one of the best funds in this space by any metric—DPI, IRR, or otherwise. We are a liquidity crypto fund focused on NFTs, and not only did we not drop 98%, but we also significantly increased, even outperforming all other funds, including some that only buy Bitcoin. This proves that we really know what we are doing.
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